Squads and/or Official Guild Ranking System?

[Lexx Yovel]

I tend to be against the concept of an exclusive roleplay platoon. I see the merit in the original proposa: Intel, PR, Combat, and Supply. The challenge would be finding members to head those platoons, and how their relationship with the Council would work.

I can see how adding a guild ranking system could be confusing for roleplay. Like you said, there's a GCW rank system, and RP rank system, and if we add a RID rank system that's identical to the RP one, it could result in confusion. So I'm not sure what the solution would be.

What Artimaes proposed was 10 ranks, listed and explained below. Personally I believe that if implemented, we would need to chop at least some of the ranks. Seems like there are too many. If implemented, this can work apart of roleplay if required. Or we can scrap the system and simply give roleplayers their respective titles (Private, Corporal, etc). Not sure, but I'll still go ahead with working out the system for the Platoons most likely.

Private- New members will enter at this rank. They will be expected to show their loyalty and dedication to the guild through learning the standards and procedures of the guild and attending an events possible or supporting the efforts of the guild. They will be promoted upon Their supervisor’s recommendation and after they have been a part of the guild for at least two weeks. The suggested level requirement for this rank is 40.

Private First Class-Members having proven their loyalty and dedication become Privates First Class. As a PFC a member is not as experienced as some others, however they have proven competency in learning to act as a member of a team and learn the tricks that make one an effective soldier. Promotion from PFC to CPL will be based on the recommendation of a member’s supervisor because the soldier has shown that they have the necessary experience to begin to take on greater responsibility. The suggested level requirement for this rank is 50.

Corporal-A member who has shown loyalty and dedication, experience, and skill may become a Corporal. As a CPL a member is expected to begin to take on small leadership roles and act as some of the most important representatives of the guild to the population of the galaxy. When no leadership is present, it is the duty of a CPL to take charge of a situation and organize the Privates. When a team leader is tasked with a high work load, the duty of the CPL is to support his team leader in getting the job done in whatever way he can. Promotion from CPL to SGT is based on the member’s Squad Leader’s recommendation. The Squad Leader can recommend the member he promoted to SGT to fill an open team leader slot, or to be put in charge of a new team to be formed. The suggested level requirement for this rank is 80.

Sergeant-As a Sergeant, a member is tasked with being a Team Leader. As a team leader the member will be in charge of leading 2-4 other soldiers both on and off the battlefield. He will be their immediate supervisor and will report to his own Squad Leader directly. The requirements to be a SGT will vary depending on the member’s duties within the guild. In order to lead a combat team, a SGT must be fully combat capable and experienced in combat. Promotion from SGT to SSG is based on the recommendation of his Platoon Sergeant. The suggested level requirement for this rank is 90.

Staff Sergeant-As a Staff Sergeant, a member is in charge of an entire Squad, consisting of 2 teams. The Staff Sergeant, as a Squad Leader, is responsible for managing the dissemination of information from the Platoon Sergeant to his Squad Members, and for managing the utilization of his teams during combat. However, the Team Leaders manage the individual members of those teams during combat. Promotion to SFC is based on the recommendation of both his PL and the 1SG. The suggested level requirement for this rank is 90.

Sergeant First Class-A member holding the rank of Sergeant First Class is tasked with leading a Platoon consisting of 2-4 Squads. It is the duty of the SFC to ensure that they will of the PL is carried out properly, and that his Platoon runs smoothly and efficiently. He is in charge of managing the overall training of his Platoon and the upkeep of it’s members. Promotion to 1SG is based solely on the Commander’s will. The suggested level requirement for this rank is 90.

First Sergeant-The First Sergeant is the senior enlisted member of the guild. The First Sergeant is charged with making sure the guild at large is working smoothly and that the commander’s intent is followed throughout the day to day operations of each platoon. The 1SG is also the primary advisor to the commander on the subject of the enlisted soldiers and their needs or wants. It is expected that the 1SG keeps a good grasp on how the soldiers feel about an issue, in order to represent them to command. The suggested level requirement for this rank is 90.
Promotion above the rank of 1SG is entirely up to the Commander, and the Commander alone.

2nd Lieutenant-A 2LT is the Platoon Leader(PL) of a Platoon. The 2LT is charged with ensuring the commanders will is carried out within his platoon, and in charge of making sure that everything runs smoothly administratively. The primary role, however, is to represent his Platoon on the Command Staff. He is the foremost expert on his area of expertise, and is expected to maintain himself and his platoon at peak performance.

1st Lieutenant-The 1LT is the Executive Officer(XO) of the entire guild. He is the primary advisor to the commander, and a critical member of the command staff. In the event that the Commander is absent for any length of time, the XO will step in as Acting Commander. The XO is also responsible for the administrative matters of the guild at large. He will manage guild relations with other guilds, and will ensure that all things internal run smoothly.

Captain-The Captain is the Commander(CO) of the guild. He is the absolute leader. He is the leading member of Command Staff, and he is responsible for managing the overall direction of the guild. Principles, doctrine, direction, ideals, these are the things the commander is charged with ensuring within the guild.

The guild will be divided into several different sections. Some of those most necessary will be:
Supply
Intel
Public Affairs
Combat
These will be divided into the different Platoons, one platoon for each of the sections, with the exception of combat. Combat would have as many platoons as we have members for. Non-combat Platoons could be made up of significantly fewer personnel, and could be made up of a modified structure based on the smaller size due to their unique natures and needs. Combat Platoons, however, would generally fit the standard.

[Apauck]

I think most of the ranks need to go. This is not a guild with 50 to 100 active members. I think that we go either the way of squads and have 5 ranks (not including council and Lexx) or we go the way of divisions. There is no way to have both with our active numbers. If we have an influx to get us to 100 active members then we might be able to do both, but from experience, you just cannot do both with less than 50.

[Lexx Yovel]

Well I met with Jo'taur and Artimaes in-game. Artimaes suggests that it is possible to reduce the ranks to around 7 or so, but both believe that the 10 ranks they've proposed could meld well with RID.

They believe that the rank system in RID should not be split between OOC and RP though. So in other words, they feel their rank system could meld well in RP.

Artimaes said that the members you guys would like be Privates or Corporals can still remain those ranks. He also said that a Squad Leader running a Squad would have a rank that an actual Squad Leader should have. Both didn't feel the rank of Sergeant would be appropriate for someone running a platoon.

Basically, Artimaes proposed that it would be me as the guild Captain-Commander of sorts, with Amodeus being next as an Executive Officer-First Lieutenant. The Platoon Leaders would be Second Lieutenants (So that would basically be the rest of the Council, such as you Apauck). And only I would be certified under the new system to appoint members to those ranks. So basically, the current Council would be responsible for filling the Executive Officer rank or Platoon Leader positions.

Artimaes also said that not every rank has to be filled. The lesser ranks would be based upon a members activity, skills, and performance in roleplay.

That's his take on things. But personally, I think the system has a lot of promise. While I do think a reduction in at least a few ranks could be neccesary, I think the proposed ranks fit well with roleplay and don't neccesarily need to be the difference between "RP" and "RP-Lite."

Perhaps it'd be best for each of us to meet with Artimaes and Jo'taur again, so that we can get everyones opinion on the matter.

[Arev]

Joe Defender is an avid roleplayer and PvPer and has been active in RID for well over a year. His GCW Rank is Major with an RP rank of Corporal and he has a PA rank of Staff Sergeant. What title would Joe receive? Corporal? Sergeant? What about those members who wish to get more involved in RP, would they use their PA ranks in RP? Does the RP rank carry over into PA rank?

These are simply a few questions. But, the big one has yet to be answered: Why is this needed? It isn't. A more division-based setup? Yes, I completely support that. However, this whole new ranking system that may or may not merge with RP I cannot support at all.

We need to take this one step at a time here. This is going to backfire terribly if we bite off more than we can chew.

[Lexx Yovel]

Well there's one thing I wholly agree with, and that is to take this slow. We're first starting by identifying which members should be in which division. Once that is established, we can work on assigning leadership roles. I don't want to make the same mistakes as before, by not only over-complicating things, but also rushings things -- no matter how enthusiastic Artimaes and Jo'taur may be about their proposal.

As far as ranks are concerned, I suppose you could say it's not needed. But one thing that I'm usually asked by newer members is, "Do we have any kind of guild ranking system." And I can't really answer that question. I think ranks, more than anything, just give members something to strive for. And with a higher rank, they can be trusted to maybe lead a group or whatnot.

As far as what rank Mr. Joe Defender would receive, I suppose since his roleplay rank is Corporal, that would be his PA rank as well. I would guard against too many conflicting ranks.

Now as far as members wishing to get more involved in RP, I suppose the answer would be "it depends." The vast majority of members wll probably be Privates to Corporals, so maybe it can roll into RP. One thing is for sure though. If we do implement some sort of rank system, we'll need to brief new recruits rather clearly on how it works, so that we can avoid conflict and animosity after they join.

[Ramd]

I sort of agree with Arev here, this doesn't seem all that necessary. I'm in favor of more structure, but this could turn into a major headache.

[Lexx Yovel]

Yeah there's always the potential of headaches. I spoke with Artimaes some more, and he agreed that we shouldn't rush things. I think in the end though, a comprehensive rank system could be neat. After thinking about it, only 7 of the 10 ranks would be held by "common" members, the other 3 would be held by myself and the current Council members. Still, there is always room for improvement. Often things that look good on paper will not roll out nicely in actuality.

I spoke with Arev briefly last night, and he suggested that this may be doable with some alterations. I couldn't hang around long enough to hear his suggestions, so perhaps later he can suggest them here.

[Apauck]

What I fear is that Joe Defender is an avid member of RID running instances daily trying to get guildies in and spending time leveling n00bie Defender to 90 and deserves a rank of Sergeant. Joe Defender is also an RPer and his char is a private and is a lazy bum that gets passed up for promotion. If he was put as a Sgt. then it would conflict w/ RP. If he was a Pvt, then he would get shafted b/c of the RP and that forces players away from RP or helping the guild.

Another problem with RID rank = RP rank is that to have a n00bie rank we need a step up rank. LCpl or Cpl is the logical choice but then we have squads made up of 8 Cpls and 1 Sgt. In RL that would be impossible. IRL you have 1 Sgt leading a squad of 2 fireteams. The squad led by the Sgt and the fireteams by two Cpls or LCpls. The fireteams have 3 Pvts or PFCs each. Now that doesn't make for good RP to have 8 Cpl or for guild cohesion to have experienced active members a PFC b/c of RP.

Now I think though that this hurdle needs to be looked on when we get there. From what it looks like, we need to get a division system set up first. Then when we have that laid out we work on ranks. I do believe we need a rank system. Some details I do not care for.

[Ramd]

From what I've seen, having an RP ranking system and a guild ranking system at the same time could be a major hassle. If we do this, one of them needs to go, and the person's rank be used for both RP and guild procedures.

Imagine this scenario: Joe Defender is an RP Second Lieutenant, and outranks Red Rid, who is an RP Lance Corporal. Joe issues squad orders during an RP event, but Red is a guild Sergeant, and Joe is only a guild private. Its an all RID group, and Red disagrees with the order. What happens? Which rank do you look at? Could the higher (guild) ranking member countermand Joe?

I just think this could cause a lot of misunderstandings and confusion.

The other thing we need to ask ourselves is what purpose will the guild ranks actually have? Is it an attempt to provide more structure to the guild (i.e. people will actually be able to pull rank on lower ranking members)? Or is it just a new incentives structure for loyal members to get a cool title?

[Lexx Yovel]

Okay, well I suppose it makes sense to either scrap/postpone the rank system, and focus more on "general positions" instead. IE: Platoon Leader in place of Second Lieutenants, and Squad Leader in place of Staff Sergeants, etc.

So we'll work on putting together a platoon system first so to speak.

[Arev]

Like I said before, Artimaes is attempting to 'fix' a problem that doesn't exist. Is there anything intrinsically good about these ranks? My answer is no. These ideas *might* work if they were implemented say...seven years ago, but it's too late. Even the "general positions" are still ranks and can create issues in RP. If you want to go vague, don't use military terminology at all.

[Lexx Yovel]

I'm not neccesarily sure if he's trying to fix a problem that doesn't exist. It could be that he just wants to bring more depth to the guild hierarchy. But I do understand the argument that it may be a bit of a hassel to implement things now.

I can see how ranks, even generalized ones, can still be problematic for roleplay. I mean if I'm not mistaken, Amodeus is a Colonel in the ISB. And then you've got other members who are ranked in some other entity. Regal Squadron ranks, Stormtrooper ranks, etc, etc.

So here's what. If a rank system is implemented in RID, it will likely be independent of roleplay -- and this fact will be made clear to all members. Think of it as a company-specific rank system. You have your rank in the company (RID), and then you have your rank in another Imperial entity (ISB, Navy, etc) -- that's just me brainstorming.

Or, we can scrap ranks altogether, and perhaps even the Platoon system altogether. Or we can consider, like you said, getting rid of all military terminology, whilst keeping Platoons.

Indeed, perhaps Platoons are not even neccesary. RID is doing pretty well for itself. We're getting good PR with other organizations, and we're getting involved in a lot of events. RP, space, participation in the GCW, nice group of people -- all that. Honestly the only thing we probably lack in is heroic participation, but with jewelry becoming tradable in the next update, demand for running them may not be as high. In fact, only a small number of members cited heroics as an interest in the latest survey.

Despite this, I think we should keep Platoons on the drawing board. If nothing else, it will allow us to quickly identify the overall interests of guild members, using a quick /guildshow command.

[Arev]

Why not simply call them Divisions instead of Platoons while we're at it?

(There's actually a good reason for that--because Patryn holds the title "Platoon Sergeant" already in RP.)