So I got this mail...

Post by **Lexx Yovel** » Sun Aug 10, 2008 6:47 pm

What's everyone take on it?:

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I'm sorry, but I just received a holomail that 'Redaxe let 'Andrew' back into the PA, and I can't tolerate that. I defended that guy the other day when Shiftie and I ran ISD in a PUG, claiming that he's a great PvPer, knows his profession well, etc. During this run, he took ridiciously long to get ready and did not follow orders. Something else that needs to be taken into consideration is that 'Andrew' is blanantly a faction switcher. Will RID tolerate faction switchers?
>
> It's also worth noting that it seems all the 'worst characters' that RID has had are all admitted into the PA by one person: 'Red. If something isn't done quickly about the numerous problems that I've highlighted (poor communication caused by guild mail spam and not using the forums, lack of quality new members because too many people have membership acceptance abilities, and lack of uniform knowledge database for the guild crafters - again, caused by the guild mail spam/lack of forum use) then I'll be forced to leave the guild.
>
> Thank you for your understanding on this matter.
>
> [Subject-C]

Mikal · Post by **Mikal** » Sun Aug 10, 2008 7:33 pm

I've never once heard a complaint about 'Andrew', and this is the first time I've ever heard a complaint about 'Redaxe and his recruiting abilities. As far as the other comlaints that [Subject-C] has had...how long ago did he voice them? I'm pretty sure that Lexx posted in a reasonable time here in the officer forums, and that was only a day or so ago. Does he think that the forum usage is going to explode overnight? I'm sorry to rant and stuff (rough day at work), but my God....can't the guy have a LITTLE patience?!?!?! We already lost Maris to her husbands guild (which honestly, I would rather keep members, but to join her husbands guild in my opinion is excusable...they ARE married after all). I haven't logged in today, is this something that he is sending out to the entire guild? Or just to you Lexx? I honestly hope that he is not spreading dissention in the ranks is all.

As far as faction switching goes. I myself have switched factions in the past to do quests, and of course to be Imperially aligned when I started guild hunting. Does that make me a "bad" person? I believe, if memory serves me correctly, that he had switched to do a quest for a ship or something. He left the guild so that we wouldn't "have a rebel in our midst". He expressed his desire to return to the Empire and RID as soon as he was done. Nothing was ever said that would indicate to me that what he did was not acceptable.

I don't have much personal experiance with [Subject-C], but his concerns about the traders...does he have one? If he does, please inform him that I would appreciate it that he not complain about how things are going with the division if he can't even send me his info as requested both ingame and here on the forums.

That is all I have for now. I just hope that he doesn't cross me tonight, as I am quite upset over him complaining about the commercial division and he has not yet went to the leaders of the division to voice his concerns.

Post by **Lexx Yovel** » Sun Aug 10, 2008 7:41 pm

This was my reply to him:

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Thank you for making your concerns known,
>
> All of your the issues you brough up are being addressed, but I could do without threats of removing yourself from the guild. Also while it is one thing to bring up problems it is another to find solutions. I would recommend at this time posting a list of suggestions on our RID Discussion forums to promote the usage of other communication means (such as the forums) prposing means of facilitating the list of our traders.
>
> Now I do know 'Andrew' takes a while to get a ready, but that's most likely due to his sub-par computer. I wouldn't be surprised if his apparently lack of following orders is merely his inability to type on a laggy computer, and I can attest to this. Although I do not condone boasting if that is indeed what he was doing, nor faction hopping. Either way though Shiftie and I did discuss the recruitment of 'Andrew' and opted towards allowing him back in. It was not a decision of 'Redaxe alone. I've also informed all Commanders/Captains on our private section of the RID forums to limit their over-use of recruitment. I require applications from all new recruits to be sent to me and an interview or some kind to be arranged.
>
> Aside from 'Andrew', I would be interested in the names of other "problem" members so that perhaps we can resolve such issues within our guild.
>
> Lexx Yovel
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No I do not believe he sent this to the entire guild. It was sent to just me. I've got nothing against 'Andrew' and I do respect the way he clarified to the guild about his reason for going Rebel.

Like I said in the mail his concerns are valid but the guy just seems like a complainer to me. If he can come up with such an extensive list of problems perhaps he can offer suggestions other than, "Do something or I'm leaving."

The guy could, like you said, have a lot more patience with these sorts of things. I also think he has a personal agenda against 'Redaxe for some reason.

Shiftie · Post by **Shiftie** » Sun Aug 10, 2008 8:01 pm

I as well got this mail from [Subject-C], I do like him but I dont. All in all, he can be a bit bossy to others and DOES complain alot! In that group he speaks of, the group wasnt very organized to begin with. It was a miracle that we made it as far as we did (thanks to me

in ISD. Andrew wasnt the only one not following orders, Thasher of PNDMK (sp?) was the group leader and totally ignoring what [Subject-C] was saying and taking forever. That nite of that run, I think [Subject-C] was more annoying and that was the cause of Andrew and Thasher's inresponsiveness.

As I do almost everytime, I go along with people in tells to feel them out and try to keep the peace for the sake of the group completing its mission. The feeling I get from [Subject-C] is alot of distrot in general, if things arent looking up or going his way, he gets upset over it and has to take it out on something or someone instead of just owning up to him being a total Ass sometimes.

Another complaint I received about him was from Inconcessus. They were RPing (bad idea anyway imo lol) and he went to take it somewhere that it shouldnt have. The whole time, she was sending me tells saying things like [Subject-C] is trying to take the RP sexual and trying his best to "godmode" it his favor. Luckily she was able to avoid it somehow, dont recall the details because it was like 3 am. I told her plain and simple, if something like this happens again, let us know. I will not have RID with that kind of reputation. Some people are ok with the sexual stuff, some arent, and she clearly expressed that she wasnt comfortable with it.

I understand his complaint about Andrew, its a somewhat reasonable concern, but as far as i knew, Andrew left RID on good terms. And personally, i would take Andrew over [Subject-C] anyday.

If [Subject-C] does stay in guild, I think this should be his last opportunity, one more complaint from anyone and he should be removed.

Kurke Aumea · Post by **Kurke Aumea** » Sun Aug 10, 2008 8:06 pm

LexxYovel wrote:"Do something or I'm leaving."

Despite whatever beef he has with someone, it's also a play for power. If he cave in to his demand that you "do something," then you increase his ego and one can only imagine where that will lead him.

My theory, if it's that much of a thorn in his side, he can leave. Seriously, the only loss is to himself in that case.

Mikal · Post by **Mikal** » Sun Aug 10, 2008 8:21 pm

I just reread what he said while scrolling down to look at the replies. I noticed that he doesn't like how many people have accept ability. Only the officers have that ability. I myself have never used it. I don't recall ever seeing a mail where Kurke has used it, along with several others. Yes, I would like to see SOME control on how we recruit people. I suggest having a place here on the forums where people fill out an application. They then group with us and the like and let us get to know them. Require that they at least know some people in RID on the application, and that person must post there verifying that. Then once we get to know the person sufficiently, we can invite them into the guild.

Kurke Aumea · Post by **Kurke Aumea** » Sun Aug 10, 2008 9:23 pm

Mikal wrote:I just reread what he said while scrolling down to look at the replies. I noticed that he doesn't like how many people have accept ability. Only the officers have that ability. I myself have never used it. I don't recall ever seeing a mail where Kurke has used it, along with several others. Yes, I would like to see SOME control on how we recruit people. I suggest having a place here on the forums where people fill out an application. They then group with us and the like and let us get to know them. Require that they at least know some people in RID on the application, and that person must post there verifying that. Then once we get to know the person sufficiently, we can invite them into the guild.

I really never had to use it. I only did use it like three times and that was to re-admit people after they "accidentally" removed themselves. I guess as someone being in charge of the comemrce division, it's hard to gather recruits. I mean, neither Mikal or I are going to gather up combatants to be in RID (not easily anyways). That and I'm not the greatest at recruiting people to begin with...

Shiftie · Post by **Shiftie** » Mon Aug 11, 2008 12:10 am

The thing about recruiting people is attitude, they can act right in the beginning and be great in interviews, but later can become a mess. Look at -Black-. From first appearance he was nice it seemed, but started with the whole "N" word thing.

Limited recruiting ability or making people jump through hoops may damage numbers in the end. I for one am not so big on numbers as having quality people, but some of the more quality people may look at it being annoying for them to have to wait to join the guild.

I try to limit my recruiting. Anytime i recruit someone i forward the app to 'redaxe to take a look as well, or send to lexx and have him interview.

But as far as [Subject-C] goes on wanting his way, i think we shouldnt bow to him and his demands. I know he is a friend of Kioet's but he is really becoming a problem. If he is so power hungry and knowledgable of the game and how we should run the guild, he can go make his own.

Post by **Lexx Yovel** » Mon Aug 11, 2008 12:47 pm

Well personally I don't think recruitment is much of an issue. Certainly bad apples slip by, but like you said, by the time we realize their true colors they have already been in the guild for quite a while... such as the case with -Black-.

I do think there could be a bit more done to ensure they are right for RID, and this would include requiring registration on our forums, and perhaps attendance of at least one RID event. Many of the new recruits are patient but end up looking for alternate organizations after a week of not hearing from us. I'm not sure if this means they are bad choices, since even I may look for other options during such a wait.

But lets put it this way, it seems [Subject-C] is the only one who seems to have such a problem with recruitment. No one has had complaints towards 'Andrew' or any other members as far as I can tell.

As for his complaints about guild mail spamming... I dunno, it's true some people may use it unnecesarily but it's not particularly difficult to clear out your inbox after reading messages. You can even delete them in bulk by holding down the "shift" key. So it's a minor inconvenience at worst.

As long as he doesn't start making his complaints known in guild mail or guild chat I've got no problems voicing his opinion, but he could do more in the way of offering suggestions. He says people should use our forums but I have yet to see him make a considerable amount of posts here if at all.

Kurke Aumea · Post by **Kurke Aumea** » Mon Aug 11, 2008 4:00 pm

I think you have more of a problem with getting people to read guild-mails than with spamming the guild-mail function...

Post by **Lexx Yovel** » Mon Aug 11, 2008 9:28 pm

If anyone would like to read and reply to [Subject-C]'s post in the RID Discussion forum, now's the chance... perhaps we can get a constructive conversation going.

Saurat Seerdon · Post by **Saurat Seerdon** » Mon Aug 11, 2008 9:45 pm

i can kinda see where [Subject-C] is coming from with the recruitment thing. vahdreas for example, removed himself, said stuff, then next day was reguilded by shiftie. i should have sent out a mail to officers other than lexx about what happened, so that was a failure in communication on my part.

we do need to be more thorough on the recruitment process though, if someone really wants in R.I.D. they should be put through a trial or something. (attend a few events/hunts) forum usage should be encouraged more. like for instance, if a event is taking place, don't give all the details put like at the end

'for more information on this event, check the war chamber on the RID forums'

it's so much easier to use forums than guild mail, imo.

Apium · Post by **Apium** » Mon Aug 11, 2008 11:20 pm

Re-recruitment also needs to be re-evaluated. There are far too many times when a trouble maker leaves the guild, either as a threat or because he thinks he will be kicked, and is then reguilded by an officer who didn't know the situation. I'm not entirely against recruiting a former member of RID, but there needs to be strict guidelines governing this.

Kurke Aumea · Post by **Kurke Aumea** » Tue Aug 12, 2008 9:23 am

So, I read the "[Subject-C]" thread in the other forum and came away with mixed feelings. He makes a few good points, but at the same time I don't think he has much appreciation for what it takes to actually run a guild. I mean, on one hand I just want to tell him that given his ideas that he should just form his own guild and he can find out what really does or doesn't work. But on the other hand, how can I discourage helpful ideas? I dunno... I get the impression that [Subject-C] is one of those people who complain/suggest things, but then never wants to be the person to help organize and pull it off...

But like I said, he made a few good points. However, the points he mentioned are not new to RID and have been talked about and worked about before. Guild mail and guild members helping other guild members being near the top of that previously existing list. Does that mean RID is perfect and shouldn't change? No. I think recruitment policies, re-recruitment policies, guild communications, and the command structure as a whole could be improved upon.

I just get the feeling that his thread is a "mountain out of a mole hill" thread for some reason...

I'll toss my opinion into that thread eventually, but I'm sure I'll get brushed off as being negative or not putting the guild first... :roll:

Post by **Lexx Yovel** » Tue Aug 12, 2008 1:01 pm

Personally I think some of his arguments are moot like the "image" argument as well as arguments concerning our lack of goals and the like. So far the primary thing I want to work on is make a push for more forum use and I think that'd go a long way and will solve the problem of excessive guild mailing and the percieved lack of assistance. It would also be a part of the reworked recruitment strategy.