From Ruh:
I originally wrote out some horrible and long compounding post then read it over. I then said to myself "Self - you are an idiot. No one is going to want to read that and they probably won't understand. Hell, you barely do". I then quickly realised that you should not insult yourself when you are in arm's reach of...yourself. Ow...
Basically my ideas center around giving incentive to be involved in the guild. More specifically, involvement in guild divisions.
I came upon the ideas after I think I broke something in my head with trying to deal with all of these reverse engineering orders (/blame shiftie). Just kidding, I love you Shiftie and you've always helped me when neede. But, no seriously. When offering up free stuff I saw many people wanted to jump at the oppertunity. Sadly, I didn't want to be stuck REing on days on end so I had to limit what I could give. And when I asked for something in return, it was very easy comings - depending on who I went to. I'm not trying to complain especially since I offered it for free with no strings attached. Anyways...I digress.
Basically, as it seems to me right now, there is no incentive to join a division and thusly no one joins. Therefor the guild suffers in membership, recruitment, and involvement. I am not sure how it worked in the days of old, but judging from the fact that the guild is still here and all of those posts/pictures I have seen it must have gone fairly well. But in the here and now something more is needed.
I think that membership in a division should come with perks and obligations. I will now break them down here:
THE COMMERCIAL COMPANY
PERKS: Free lot usage of and assistance from other divisions in attaining resources needed for crafting (these resources could be used for personal privately owned business). This includes installation harvested resources, as well as creature resources, loot items, etc.
OBLIGATIONS: Discounted sales to the guild as a whole. Contributions of crafted items to the Commercial Company who then sells those items to fund guild events (i.e base busting).
THE REGAL ARMY
PERKS: Free/even more discounted items than other guild members (armor, weapons, phat lewtz)
OBLIGATIONS: Assistances in fighting the GCW (PvE and PvP), assisting guild memebers in questing. Assisting other divisions as requested.
THE REGAL NAVY (basically same as Army - just in space)
PERKS: Free/even more discounted items than other guild members (armor, weapons, phat lewtz)
OBLIGATIONS: Assistances in fighting the GCW (PvE and PvP), assisting guild memebers in questing. Assisting other divisions as requested.
THE INTEL TEAM
...uhh actually I hadn't even thought about this division...whoops. Perhaps merging them as a special unit with the Army and/or Navy
PERKS: Free/even more discounted items than other guild members (armor, weapons, phat lewtz)
OBLIGATIONS: Assistances in fighting the GCW (PvE and PvP) by providing intel on...stuff, assisting guild memebers in questing? Assisting other divisions as requested.
More expansion on my ideas of the Commercial Company. I think it should go beyond helping support crafters who are in the guild, as I hinted at above. I would like to see RID form and operate its own "business" thus converting the RID malls from houses used to hold other people's vendors to houses used to hold RID's Vendors (as well as other people's vendors). The RID vendors should be opperated by the CFO or FO and the Commercial Company could maintain a treasury perhaps? The money in the treasury goes to fund guild activities (i.e base busting - actually that is really the only activity i can think of that needs funding lol, but we could expand to more bases per week).
You are probably now thinking, "Ruh, you lied. You said you shortened this!" Well, I didn't lie. I did shorten. You can thank me later :p.
Please tell me what you think of my thoughts and tell me if I am way off base or something. I can also expand more on PERKS/OBLIGATIONS I have had in mind for the divisions, but like I said...I tried to shorten this up lol.
Ideas from Ruh (EVERYONE READ)
Moderator:Lexx Yovel
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Shiftie
I agree with this 100%. One thing that has been an issue, at least for me is divisions. I think the 4 divisions are a great idea, but I think right now we lack the members to uphold 4 divisions.
When i first joined RID it was more organized, members where on and always active, since joining I have a noticed a huge decline in members activity, even willingness to help out with instances or just helping out other guildies has not been a strong point of others.
I by no means am talking myself up, but it does seem that other guildies lack the compassion to help. We lost Maris-brood who was a very friendly person over this matter. Her exact words: "I am leaving RID because you are the only one that has even offered to help me. I am joining my husband's guild because i get alot of help from them, thank you for all your help Shiftie."
I am very mad about losing her to another guild because we lack compassion to help each other out, she also explained a few days ago that no one even really talked to her in guild except me. With that kind attitude in the guild, I dont blame her for leaving. I dont know really what the problem is currently, but we need to find it and get it sorted out. We can recruit people, but if we are not involving them or keep the guild active, i think we will not progress as a guild.
When i first joined RID it was more organized, members where on and always active, since joining I have a noticed a huge decline in members activity, even willingness to help out with instances or just helping out other guildies has not been a strong point of others.
I by no means am talking myself up, but it does seem that other guildies lack the compassion to help. We lost Maris-brood who was a very friendly person over this matter. Her exact words: "I am leaving RID because you are the only one that has even offered to help me. I am joining my husband's guild because i get alot of help from them, thank you for all your help Shiftie."
I am very mad about losing her to another guild because we lack compassion to help each other out, she also explained a few days ago that no one even really talked to her in guild except me. With that kind attitude in the guild, I dont blame her for leaving. I dont know really what the problem is currently, but we need to find it and get it sorted out. We can recruit people, but if we are not involving them or keep the guild active, i think we will not progress as a guild.
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Lexx Yovel
- RID Leader/Mayor
- Posts:5390
- Joined:Fri May 14, 2004 10:26 am
- Location:Fort Oasis, Tatooine
I will be making a seperate posting concerning communication, helpfulness and Maris-brood in general.
As for divisions, I will discuss my take here... I believe it's time to scrap the division system. Ever since the birth of RID we've always had divisions, but the number of them simply changed. We used to have somewhere around like 12 divisions each with a First, Second and Third in command (back then it was sort of a cheap way into apeasing members into have a "leading" position... that was years ago though). I think todays system has been the most successful, even though we've always had debates concerning the usefulness of the Intel Team (IE: We should just merge it with the Army).
Regardless of this, and despite the efforts of hard working Commanders/Captains, I don't see much of a point to divisions anymore. With the exclusion of crafters, everyone does a bit of everything. If Navy members excell both in ground and in space then what's the point of just putting them in the Navy? Same goes for Army members who destroy bases, PvP both in space/ground, RP, do heroics and what not. We all don't just do *one* thing. It's also a headache to move around members into certain divisions. Many don't know what divisions they're even in or what they should do, and I don't blame them.
So I'm proposing this system, and everyone can offer suggestions. I'm thinking we should have:
1.) Leader (Me of course)
2.) Elders: Basically this would be like you guys
3.) Dignitaries: This would be active/helpful members
4.) Subordinates: Members who rarely play or participate in general
We can cut it down even further if we wanted to, but I think this would be a lot easier to manage... also it would get rid of the, "divisions aren't doing anything, what's the point of them anyways" way of thinking. This way we know who to look up to for assistance, and nothing more. This doesn't mean the old system is dead. For example lets take Mikal for instance. He's currently managing the Commercial Company. Under the new system he would be tagged as an Elder, but wouldn't have any division to run in general. But he could still assist members wherever he pleases, and since he's a crafter, he can always still organize a list of traders, and work with them.
Same for people like Ihip', who would be an Elder under this system. He could simply look for pilots in general out of the entire guild to assist during events. And equipping them can always still be achieved.
Dignitaries would be people like Ruh, Rahna, etc. These are people who talk a lot, play a lot, and participate a lot, but don't neccesarily organize things, manage things and handle guild issues.
And then we have Subordinates, casual players who log on every now and then, maybe talk here and there and what not.
It may seem to be a radical change, but in the end it's not much different than what we have. Right now we essentially have Commanders and members who may or may not be in a division... but in the end it doesn't matter much, because we simply need them to communicate, participate and have fun with the guild.
While we're at it, we can keep an active list of who is what profession. Maybe I can put in their guild tag "Subordinate (T)" which would mean the member is a Trader who is a Subordinate, or "Elder (J)" which means he's an elder who is a Jedi. Also, if a person is an ace, they could be tagged as "Dignitary (O-A)" which means the member is a Dignitary who is an Officer but also an Ace pilot.
This way people can use their guild terminal search to find professions... but then again, they could always type /who Regal.
Anyways I'd be interested to hear the input.
As for divisions, I will discuss my take here... I believe it's time to scrap the division system. Ever since the birth of RID we've always had divisions, but the number of them simply changed. We used to have somewhere around like 12 divisions each with a First, Second and Third in command (back then it was sort of a cheap way into apeasing members into have a "leading" position... that was years ago though). I think todays system has been the most successful, even though we've always had debates concerning the usefulness of the Intel Team (IE: We should just merge it with the Army).
Regardless of this, and despite the efforts of hard working Commanders/Captains, I don't see much of a point to divisions anymore. With the exclusion of crafters, everyone does a bit of everything. If Navy members excell both in ground and in space then what's the point of just putting them in the Navy? Same goes for Army members who destroy bases, PvP both in space/ground, RP, do heroics and what not. We all don't just do *one* thing. It's also a headache to move around members into certain divisions. Many don't know what divisions they're even in or what they should do, and I don't blame them.
So I'm proposing this system, and everyone can offer suggestions. I'm thinking we should have:
1.) Leader (Me of course)
2.) Elders: Basically this would be like you guys
3.) Dignitaries: This would be active/helpful members
4.) Subordinates: Members who rarely play or participate in general
We can cut it down even further if we wanted to, but I think this would be a lot easier to manage... also it would get rid of the, "divisions aren't doing anything, what's the point of them anyways" way of thinking. This way we know who to look up to for assistance, and nothing more. This doesn't mean the old system is dead. For example lets take Mikal for instance. He's currently managing the Commercial Company. Under the new system he would be tagged as an Elder, but wouldn't have any division to run in general. But he could still assist members wherever he pleases, and since he's a crafter, he can always still organize a list of traders, and work with them.
Same for people like Ihip', who would be an Elder under this system. He could simply look for pilots in general out of the entire guild to assist during events. And equipping them can always still be achieved.
Dignitaries would be people like Ruh, Rahna, etc. These are people who talk a lot, play a lot, and participate a lot, but don't neccesarily organize things, manage things and handle guild issues.
And then we have Subordinates, casual players who log on every now and then, maybe talk here and there and what not.
It may seem to be a radical change, but in the end it's not much different than what we have. Right now we essentially have Commanders and members who may or may not be in a division... but in the end it doesn't matter much, because we simply need them to communicate, participate and have fun with the guild.
While we're at it, we can keep an active list of who is what profession. Maybe I can put in their guild tag "Subordinate (T)" which would mean the member is a Trader who is a Subordinate, or "Elder (J)" which means he's an elder who is a Jedi. Also, if a person is an ace, they could be tagged as "Dignitary (O-A)" which means the member is a Dignitary who is an Officer but also an Ace pilot.
This way people can use their guild terminal search to find professions... but then again, they could always type /who Regal.
Anyways I'd be interested to hear the input.
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Kurke Aumea
- First Lieutenant
- Posts:374
- Joined:Sun Dec 16, 2007 11:11 pm
In regards to guild crafting, I ask to you please see my complaints over in Mikal's thread. Giving away things for free to guild crafters (like resources) only encourages them to level up and leave. Seriously, the biggest problem is actually getting people to play meaningful crafting roles. Everyone is either a crafter for personal benefit or a crafter who has a previously established customer base.
There's also a fundamental problem with forcing discounts. Unless you have only one type of each crafter, you will be forcing unfair competition amongst guild members. In reality, you really should only need one of each type of crafter, but you know you'll end up with multiples. Instead of forcing guild them to have guild discounts (or as some would like it, the crafters would give stuff away for free...), recommend that they give a discount and let them partake in a free-market economy, especially within the guild.
Going back to the free concept... It's nothing more than a drain on the guild or crafters and nothing more. Giving away free resources to crafters sounds great, until you look closer. First, where are you (the guild) getting the resources? If it is your commander/captain/elder running the harvestors, what are they doing for their income? OK, so you give away the resources for free. You'd think that would mean pure profit for the crafter. Well it does. Until the crafter realizes that he/she can take the guild for all its resources while grinding and then up and leave and be more profitable elsewhere. But here's the fun part.... non-crafting guild members who want free stuff!!! I rarely give out things for free, and it's usually for a damn good reason. Just because you're my guildie (this isn't directed at anyone in particular, just making a point), I should give you X item for free? So, if I asked for the 20 million credit weapon or painting or holo for free from you, you'd give it to me?? Probably not...
OK, here's a rundown of what the commerce company has done in the past, to no avail, to try to spur interest/development/commerce:
-sent out guild mails with list of crafters
-given out free resource
-given out free harvestors
-given out HEAVILY discounted resources
-shared lots
-shared harvestors
-shared retail space
-shared storage areas
For the most part, none of these have really worked. Like I said, the free resources and harvestors only seem to last until the crafter reaches level 90. The discounted resources kind of worked, but wasn't that successful... The other things may or may not have worked, but nothing really proved successful enough to keep the interest of crafters.
The other problem is that, for whatever reason, none of the non-crafters purchased things from guild crafters. They either went outside the guild or made their own crafter (using second toon slot...). I realize that if the guild doesn't have a certain crafter, that is hard to avoid. But I have on numerous occasions steeply discounted my goods to guildies and they still go out and pay market/bazaar prices on things...
One more note, loot vendors should not count towards any sort of crafter/vendor list. EVER! Anyone can put a up a loot vendor. Crafters are a special breed and it takes a good crafter to be profitable.
As for whether or not the division system works anymore, I think it works as long as we cycle in people into the positions. My main argument here is that we tend to leave people in a ranking position no matter what, for whatever reason. Someone goes on a summer vacation, yet we keep them in charge. Someone goes on military tour, yet we leave them in charge. Someone goes MIA for whatever reason, so we leave them in charge. See a pattern? I'm all about leaving good, qualified people in charge, but if they're not going to be there to lead and help run their respective division, then what purpose are they really serving? I understand that cycling people into a position just to fill the position isn't desireable either (lack of experience and desire can make that person quit/leave in a heartbeat...), but having a ghost for a commander or captain doesn't do any good either.
Could things be simplified even more? Probably. In reality, there really are only two aspects to this game, combat and non-combat. If you really wanted to get simple, that's one way to do it.
Would disolving the division system and replacing it with an elder system work? Hard to say... I truly think you'll be in the same place you are now and stuck spinning your wheels.
Then again, it is midnight and I lost in my second NCAA '09 game tonight by a painful margin, so my mood is a smidge on the sour side... lol
There's also a fundamental problem with forcing discounts. Unless you have only one type of each crafter, you will be forcing unfair competition amongst guild members. In reality, you really should only need one of each type of crafter, but you know you'll end up with multiples. Instead of forcing guild them to have guild discounts (or as some would like it, the crafters would give stuff away for free...), recommend that they give a discount and let them partake in a free-market economy, especially within the guild.
Going back to the free concept... It's nothing more than a drain on the guild or crafters and nothing more. Giving away free resources to crafters sounds great, until you look closer. First, where are you (the guild) getting the resources? If it is your commander/captain/elder running the harvestors, what are they doing for their income? OK, so you give away the resources for free. You'd think that would mean pure profit for the crafter. Well it does. Until the crafter realizes that he/she can take the guild for all its resources while grinding and then up and leave and be more profitable elsewhere. But here's the fun part.... non-crafting guild members who want free stuff!!! I rarely give out things for free, and it's usually for a damn good reason. Just because you're my guildie (this isn't directed at anyone in particular, just making a point), I should give you X item for free? So, if I asked for the 20 million credit weapon or painting or holo for free from you, you'd give it to me?? Probably not...
OK, here's a rundown of what the commerce company has done in the past, to no avail, to try to spur interest/development/commerce:
-sent out guild mails with list of crafters
-given out free resource
-given out free harvestors
-given out HEAVILY discounted resources
-shared lots
-shared harvestors
-shared retail space
-shared storage areas
For the most part, none of these have really worked. Like I said, the free resources and harvestors only seem to last until the crafter reaches level 90. The discounted resources kind of worked, but wasn't that successful... The other things may or may not have worked, but nothing really proved successful enough to keep the interest of crafters.
The other problem is that, for whatever reason, none of the non-crafters purchased things from guild crafters. They either went outside the guild or made their own crafter (using second toon slot...). I realize that if the guild doesn't have a certain crafter, that is hard to avoid. But I have on numerous occasions steeply discounted my goods to guildies and they still go out and pay market/bazaar prices on things...
One more note, loot vendors should not count towards any sort of crafter/vendor list. EVER! Anyone can put a up a loot vendor. Crafters are a special breed and it takes a good crafter to be profitable.
As for whether or not the division system works anymore, I think it works as long as we cycle in people into the positions. My main argument here is that we tend to leave people in a ranking position no matter what, for whatever reason. Someone goes on a summer vacation, yet we keep them in charge. Someone goes on military tour, yet we leave them in charge. Someone goes MIA for whatever reason, so we leave them in charge. See a pattern? I'm all about leaving good, qualified people in charge, but if they're not going to be there to lead and help run their respective division, then what purpose are they really serving? I understand that cycling people into a position just to fill the position isn't desireable either (lack of experience and desire can make that person quit/leave in a heartbeat...), but having a ghost for a commander or captain doesn't do any good either.
Could things be simplified even more? Probably. In reality, there really are only two aspects to this game, combat and non-combat. If you really wanted to get simple, that's one way to do it.
Would disolving the division system and replacing it with an elder system work? Hard to say... I truly think you'll be in the same place you are now and stuck spinning your wheels.
Then again, it is midnight and I lost in my second NCAA '09 game tonight by a painful margin, so my mood is a smidge on the sour side... lol
3134 Posts + Whatever I have now
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Ihip
I'm farming nova engine schematics slowly... They cost a good chunk of money to make them and I don't have resource and I'm not going to buy them either... That is A LOT of money...
Looting enough nice space parts takes a looooong time...
Also, I am the only one in the guild that actively PvPs in space outside of events (I'm not going to as much b/c I'm tired of most of the rebels being (insert a mean word here that you feel fits best). I have a vendor with quality raw (might be a few RE'd still there) parts for cheap. Half price to the guild. All they have to do is ask. Near dant agro (I'll send out a mail with my policy soon). I've also exhausted nearly all of my spare parts stash sooo...
Looting enough nice space parts takes a looooong time...
Also, I am the only one in the guild that actively PvPs in space outside of events (I'm not going to as much b/c I'm tired of most of the rebels being (insert a mean word here that you feel fits best). I have a vendor with quality raw (might be a few RE'd still there) parts for cheap. Half price to the guild. All they have to do is ask. Near dant agro (I'll send out a mail with my policy soon). I've also exhausted nearly all of my spare parts stash sooo...