The GAT Thread

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Post by Kurke_Aumea » Fri Oct 27, 2006 10:52 am

Ri'Me wrote:Actually the games were designed on the Wii so that you don't have to swing the controller in exagerrated motions like you see in the promo videos, although you can, a simple nudge of the controller will also work just as well, so you probably won't get tired at all playing the games (unless the game was designed to give you a workout). Here is a quote from Gamepro magazine:


"We've actually started to play a lot of the Wii recently, especially since developers and publishers are now actively previewing their games, and we have to say all those Nintendo press screen shots are rather deceptive.
Most games won't have you waving the Wii remote around like a mad man. A lot of what we've played has you sitting down on your couch, with your elbows resting on your knees. Another thing to keep in mind is that most games have multiple control schemes. While certain actions require rigorous actions with the Wii remote and Nunchuk, the entire game isn't just one motion, repeat, and serve. From what we've seen and played, the Wii-mote offers a plethora of control options."

I am far more excited with what the Wii has to offer simply because it's different and most of the games on the 360 and PS3 are pretty much "been there, done that" games. But don't take my word for it, here's a vid from IGN.com in 2 parts.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EgLxUBJI ... ed&search=

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n1tEX5vT ... ed&search=


I'm still going with "gimmick". It will definitely entertain the young, young at heart, and new gamers. If they can keep innovative games coming out for the next five years, things won't get stale. But that is a tall order in itself. I just don't see the Wii keeping things fresh forever. I think it will suffer a similar fate as the GameCube.

And I think you need to take a look at your comment about the 360 and PS3. Yes, on one hand you are right. Many games for both of those platforms are either sequals or your standard FPS, RPG, or strategy game. But there are new games coming out that are different. I just want to know what makes the Wii different from the 360 and PS3? I mean, what iteration of Mario, Donkey Kong, Zelda, and Metroid Prime are we on now??? Oh, but because we can swing a sword in the next Zelda game with the controller, it is somehow different? Umm, no.

Nintendo is just as guilty as MS and Sony of giving us the same old thing. They just repackaged it all so that we control everything in a different manner. But in the end, isn't that what we want anyways? Isn't that why we buy every Mario Party game, every Halo game, and every FF game? Let's face it, we like the same old thing over and over again, just with slight twists and modifications each time.

Don't believe me? Look at the Battlefield series of games. We have four games in the series now: Battlefield 1942, Battlefield: Vietnam, Battlefield 2, and Battlefield 2142 (not counting all of the expansion packs released for the series). For the most part, all of thos games are identical. BF:1942 games us something new for once. Then, they reskinned the game engine and gave us Vietnam. BF2 had some new features and was played in modern times, but plays almost exactly like BF1942. Now, I haven't played BF2142 yet, but I've heard it is what Vietname was for the first game. BF2142 is just a reskinned version of BF2 set in the future. Still, for as identical as all these games were, people buy them up like crazy because they like the same thing, just in a different package.
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Post by Kurke_Aumea » Fri Oct 27, 2006 12:12 pm

Takura wrote:I have a PS3 and a Wii pre-ordered and I already have a 360 so.. :p


So how far down the line are you for both of them? EB Games stroes were only supposed to get 8 launch PS3's each.

Anways, I'm double-posting because my previous post was slightly lengthy and this is a different topic. So...

Sony finally released details on on the Playstaiton Network, which is Sony's answer to Xbox Live. Here's a link for some details: http://www.gamespot.com/news/6160549.html

I read through the article and everything still seems a little vague. OK, they explained how you can purchase arcade games and classic games, but that's not what everyone is mostly interested about. I want to know about the online gaming abilities of dedicated PS3 games. So far, only two launnch games are confirmed to have PS Network support. Yay? Also, if this is what you get with basic, what do you get for premium? You get matchmaking and lobbies for free? Will you actually be able to play each other for free or will that cost money? If so, how much? I'm sorry, I just find the details about online play all quite vague.

I mean, what exactly can a PS3 owner do with a free membership to PS Network? Is there a permium membership where you pay a fee? If so, what do you get for that one? Also, do all PS3 games meet generic online standards set by Sony? What I mean is that for the 360, MS has mandated that each game with multiplayer support must meet certain requierments to be allowed on Live. This ensure uniformality across all games in a certain sense and makes things easier for a Live gamer. Will this be the same for the PS3? Or will developers be able to develop multiplayer experiences without any standards?

Does anyone else have thoughts on this?

And for those curious, here's some details about pre-ordering a Wii or PS3 at Toys-R-Us: http://www.gamespot.com/news/6160530.html
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Post by Ri'Me » Fri Oct 27, 2006 2:58 pm

Kurke_Aumea wrote:
Ri'Me wrote:Actually the games were designed on the Wii so that you don't have to swing the controller in exagerrated motions like you see in the promo videos, although you can, a simple nudge of the controller will also work just as well, so you probably won't get tired at all playing the games (unless the game was designed to give you a workout). Here is a quote from Gamepro magazine:


"We've actually started to play a lot of the Wii recently, especially since developers and publishers are now actively previewing their games, and we have to say all those Nintendo press screen shots are rather deceptive.
Most games won't have you waving the Wii remote around like a mad man. A lot of what we've played has you sitting down on your couch, with your elbows resting on your knees. Another thing to keep in mind is that most games have multiple control schemes. While certain actions require rigorous actions with the Wii remote and Nunchuk, the entire game isn't just one motion, repeat, and serve. From what we've seen and played, the Wii-mote offers a plethora of control options."

I am far more excited with what the Wii has to offer simply because it's different and most of the games on the 360 and PS3 are pretty much "been there, done that" games. But don't take my word for it, here's a vid from IGN.com in 2 parts.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EgLxUBJI ... ed&search=

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n1tEX5vT ... ed&search=


I'm still going with "gimmick". It will definitely entertain the young, young at heart, and new gamers. If they can keep innovative games coming out for the next five years, things won't get stale. But that is a tall order in itself. I just don't see the Wii keeping things fresh forever. I think it will suffer a similar fate as the GameCube.

And I think you need to take a look at your comment about the 360 and PS3. Yes, on one hand you are right. Many games for both of those platforms are either sequals or your standard FPS, RPG, or strategy game. But there are new games coming out that are different. I just want to know what makes the Wii different from the 360 and PS3? I mean, what iteration of Mario, Donkey Kong, Zelda, and Metroid Prime are we on now??? Oh, but because we can swing a sword in the next Zelda game with the controller, it is somehow different? Umm, no.

Nintendo is just as guilty as MS and Sony of giving us the same old thing. They just repackaged it all so that we control everything in a different manner. But in the end, isn't that what we want anyways? Isn't that why we buy every Mario Party game, every Halo game, and every FF game? Let's face it, we like the same old thing over and over again, just with slight twists and modifications each time.

Don't believe me? Look at the Battlefield series of games. We have four games in the series now: Battlefield 1942, Battlefield: Vietnam, Battlefield 2, and Battlefield 2142 (not counting all of the expansion packs released for the series). For the most part, all of thos games are identical. BF:1942 games us something new for once. Then, they reskinned the game engine and gave us Vietnam. BF2 had some new features and was played in modern times, but plays almost exactly like BF1942. Now, I haven't played BF2142 yet, but I've heard it is what Vietname was for the first game. BF2142 is just a reskinned version of BF2 set in the future. Still, for as identical as all these games were, people buy them up like crazy because they like the same thing, just in a different package.


You should check out the videos on IGN.com.. alot of the games coming out for the Wii are totally original concepts that have never been done before. As far as Zelda being different? From a control stand point it's original... the game premise is the same but no other game actually puts you in the character's shoes like Zelda does. No other game before it on any system has been that immersive. The Wii controller has almost unlimited potential. You won't be able to "play" games like you can on the Wii on any other system, that's what sets it apart. That's what's going to force developers to create new types of games and genres for the system that have never and could never be done on any other system.

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Post by Kurke_Aumea » Fri Oct 27, 2006 3:42 pm

*cough* fanboy *cough*

I stand by my previous comments. Yes, it's all original in a sense. But if you really want to take a dive back into history, it's just the same stuff wrapped up in a different package. I don't know about some of you, but I am old enough to remember the game Duck Hunt for the NES. You had the gun that you pointed at the screen and you pulled the trigger to kill the ducks. Funny, the Wiimote doesn't seem too much different now... Oh, it does have motion sensing abilities so I guess that makes it slightly different different. Then again, we've also had steering wheels and joysticks around for years. Hmmm... Maybe the Wiimote isn't as special as it seems???

To me, the Wiimote is a combination of all of the best controller combinations we've seen over the years. Indeed, it is unique but it is also the same. Will it revolutionize the gaming undustry? I doubt it. Will it bring a welcome change to things? Most definitely. I think the Wii has made other console developers stand up and take notice. It's nothing magical though.

Perhaps the Wii is just ahead of its time. I guess I would enjoy the concept of the Wiimote more if the gaming experience was more Virtual Reality. The problem is, it isn't. I'm still playing games on a two dimensional screen where a standard controller is just better.

LIke I said, this is a very innovative gimmick on Nintendo's part. It will probably work pretty well for some time too. I just don't think the Wii will reach the audience that the other consoles will. Nintendo is going after non-gamers with this. If it works, they win. But, they also risk losing their new found customers to MS and Sony because those new gamers want to see what else is out there. The Wii will end up being the "Beginners Console" and the other consoles will end up as the "Big Boy Consoles". I know, you think I'm nuts. Talk to me in five years and we'll see how right I am.

Either way, both Nintendo and MS stand to make up some tremendous ground over this next cycle.
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Post by Waucod Meesman » Fri Oct 27, 2006 10:53 pm

well I just got home from our school dance and my feet are sour so is my neck...

On a side note I've never seen so many condoms on the floor
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Post by Kurke_Aumea » Fri Oct 27, 2006 11:17 pm

Waucod Meesman wrote:well I just got home from our school dance and my feet are sour so is my neck...

On a side note I've never seen so many condoms on the floor


Am I the only one thinking that is a huge waste of condoms???
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Post by Waucod Meesman » Fri Oct 27, 2006 11:18 pm

yeah I almost stepped on one it was gross
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Post by Kurke_Aumea » Fri Oct 27, 2006 11:34 pm

Waucod Meesman wrote:yeah I almost stepped on one it was gross


It's not like it was a used condom. That would have been gross.

Back to games...

You want to talk about a new way to control video games, check the link: http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/15434938/

Imagine playing video games with some sort of neurological interface where you didn't need a controller at all. All you had to do was control the game with your mind. THAT would be revolutionary. Hell, imagine the non-game benefits such technology could bring to the world.
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Post by Waucod Meesman » Sat Oct 28, 2006 7:20 am

and you are thinking of this for the first time now?
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Post by Ri'Me » Sat Oct 28, 2006 7:55 am

Let's not get carried away here! And also if the controller catches on, you could very well see a gaming revolution as Nintendo puts it, if not I guess we're going back to the same old boring controllers, with games that offer few innovations other than better graphics.. and the result will likely be a gaming industry slump.

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Post by Kurke_Aumea » Sat Oct 28, 2006 11:14 am

Ri'Me wrote:Let's not get carried away here! And also if the controller catches on, you could very well see a gaming revolution as Nintendo puts it, if not I guess we're going back to the same old boring controllers, with games that offer few innovations other than better graphics.. and the result will likely be a gaming industry slump.


I think you underestimate the ability for gaming to change within its physical confines. You don't need a new controller to revolutionize gaming. A game can do it all by itself, even with the same old controllers. Look how Battlefield 1942 changed online multiplayer gaming for the PC. It brought vehicles and other concepts to gaming that really hadn't worked before. Never underestimate a developer's creativity. On the otherhand, be fearful of the mega-developer's inability to innovate. EA is a prime example of a developer with a lack of innovation. They are coprorate gurus, not game developers. And when something innovative does come along, EA buys up the rights to it.

Your independent and smaller developers will always be the ones to innovate. In fact, it is probably the wrong thing to do to have console developers do the innovating. The console makers should only need to provide a functioning console with an easy to use interface for gamers. Everything after that is bells and whistles. Why do I say that? Because I can pick up a 10, 15, or 20 year old game and still have fun. The graphics might be outdated all to hell, the controller has four buttons, and the music is a series of bleeps and boops, but it is still a lot of fun!

Here's an examlple for you. Take the Madden and NCAA football series of games. In my eyes, the last good pair of games to come out for these series were the '05 versions. The '07 version of Madden is crappy. They fucked up the control scheme to hell and back again, the gameplay seems slower, and it just isn't as fun as some older versions. I haven't played the '07 version of NCAA, but I hear it suffers from a similar fate. The one thing they did starting with the '06 version of both games for the 360 was to eliminate cooperative play. See, that was a big selling point for me because me and my friend always enjoyed playing on the same team. I would play QB and he would run or catch the ball. But no, they took co-op out because they were afraid that people would use co-op to unlock achievements... What? Was coding it to make it impossible to unlock achievements when co-opping to hard? Again, EA's inability to innovate...

Innovation will come from the small and independent developers. They are the ones who will decide whether the Wiimote is more than a gimmick. They are the ones who will reinvent the wheel without changing the wheel.
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Post by Apium » Sat Oct 28, 2006 11:59 am

Kurke_Aumea wrote:
Ri'Me wrote:Actually the games were designed on the Wii so that you don't have to swing the controller in exagerrated motions like you see in the promo videos, although you can, a simple nudge of the controller will also work just as well, so you probably won't get tired at all playing the games (unless the game was designed to give you a workout). Here is a quote from Gamepro magazine:


"We've actually started to play a lot of the Wii recently, especially since developers and publishers are now actively previewing their games, and we have to say all those Nintendo press screen shots are rather deceptive.
Most games won't have you waving the Wii remote around like a mad man. A lot of what we've played has you sitting down on your couch, with your elbows resting on your knees. Another thing to keep in mind is that most games have multiple control schemes. While certain actions require rigorous actions with the Wii remote and Nunchuk, the entire game isn't just one motion, repeat, and serve. From what we've seen and played, the Wii-mote offers a plethora of control options."

I am far more excited with what the Wii has to offer simply because it's different and most of the games on the 360 and PS3 are pretty much "been there, done that" games. But don't take my word for it, here's a vid from IGN.com in 2 parts.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EgLxUBJI ... ed&search=

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n1tEX5vT ... ed&search=


Don't believe me? Look at the Battlefield series of games. We have four games in the series now: Battlefield 1942, Battlefield: Vietnam, Battlefield 2, and Battlefield 2142 (not counting all of the expansion packs released for the series). For the most part, all of thos games are identical. BF:1942 games us something new for once. Then, they reskinned the game engine and gave us Vietnam. BF2 had some new features and was played in modern times, but plays almost exactly like BF1942. Now, I haven't played BF2142 yet, but I've heard it is what Vietname was for the first game. BF2142 is just a reskinned version of BF2 set in the future. Still, for as identical as all these games were, people buy them up like crazy because they like the same thing, just in a different package.


They are all similar play styles but with the exception of 1942 and vietnam they play on different engines. The physics for 2142 and the real world element is excellent. You can get shot through anything that you could get shot through in real life. They had this to an extent in BF2, but it was more like I can shoot you though a wooden box and that was it. 2142 has finally tied down the realistic military shooter. You die on average with two hits, BF2 is closer to five. Now the expansion packs, shouldnt even be made, they hardly offer anything new.
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Post by Kurke_Aumea » Sat Oct 28, 2006 2:47 pm

Wasn't Vietnam an upgraded BF1942 engine? Or was it something else? Either way, each game in the series is the same at its base (from a gameplay standpoint). I mean, nothing is really different. Yeah, some of the mechanics have changed and I hear Titan mode for BF2143 is quite good, but Conquest is still around and is still likely the most played BF variant.
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Post by Apium » Sat Oct 28, 2006 4:42 pm

Kurke_Aumea wrote:Wasn't Vietnam an upgraded BF1942 engine? Or was it something else? Either way, each game in the series is the same at its base (from a gameplay standpoint). I mean, nothing is really different. Yeah, some of the mechanics have changed and I hear Titan mode for BF2143 is quite good, but Conquest is still around and is still likely the most played BF variant.


I said vietnam and 1942 were the same engine. Actually Titan is more popular than conquest, at least from what I've seen so far.
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Post by Kurke_Aumea » Sat Oct 28, 2006 6:28 pm

Conquest will always be the old favorite.

Is it possible??? Could OSU and Michigan not only play on Nov. 18, but go on to play the BCS Championship game in Arizona???

USC just lost to unranked Oregon State. Can West Virginia run the table to get to the BCS Championship game? Or is a one loss Michigan or OSU team still better and more deserving of the chance to go to the BCS Championship.

And you wonder why we need a playoff system in college football...
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