War Plans with TRGA

Issele · Post by **Issele** » Tue Mar 21, 2006 2:12 am

I am going to post from TRGA board from some of the TRGA members about the war:

So lets say that Mustifar, DWB, Kashyyk, Star ports, Shuttle Ports, and inside cantina's are safe zones. Also no attacking AFK, so people are safe in transit to these areas. It should be a given that CL 1's are unattackable also. Using proper judgement in regards to the rest of the fighting should make this fun, and fair for all involved. As far as clone zerking, I think if you die and don't get a rez, your dead. Waiting at the cloner for the rest of your guild will give us a more defined winner/looser situation, and also allow us to switch from attack, and defend more often.
Just my two cents, I'm happy to follow whatever rules are agreed apone.

Osiris-Loki
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Hey there everybody, A'cer popping in to say howdy. Issele had mentioned the possibility of a guildwar, so I figured I'd hop on over to make it easier to hammer out any details.

I have no idea if I am supposed to be restricted from any of the forums I can see, so feel free to move this thread and put it wherever you think it belongs.

So, basically, most of us over at TRGA love the idea of a guildwar, however there are some who do not wish to participate. Normally in the past we form a PvP-only sister guild, TRGAX, which we use to guildwar. It's a pretty tedious process; people join, people leave, and everyone is spammed with emails on both sides of the equation. The guild leader has to log in and give everyone their guild rights back (email, sponsor, etc), and it's just an annoying process that we would like to avoid.

In the past we've put up with the annoyance because frankly we didn't think we could trust the people we were warring to actually pay attention to rules, and to abide by them. Nothing turns someone off from PvP faster than getting load-ganked or jumped in a cantina as a CL1 Dancer. We have people in TRGA who wish to have nothing to do with this war, and will not participate, but who we fully expect to be able to go about their everyday activities.

If we can agree upon some very basic, very palatable ground rules, I think we could have a ton of fun with this war. If we cannot come to an agreement, or you don't think that all of your members would follow the rules we lay down, then we will call off the war and explore other avenues, such as using TRGAX.

We're not asking for a lot here, basic things, like:

No clone camping

No load ganking (in our -D S- war we had quite a bit of success just saying any shuttle/starport was a safe-zone)

No one under CL74 is attackable unless they are either part of an arranged battle, or attack you first. This is generally to prevent people from getting killed while just questing or grinding.

No crafter/entertainger killing. This obviously fits into the "under CL74" rule, but it's worth saying. We'd rather not have anyone killing low level chars on the other side of the war, because all it does is make those people less likely to PvP in the future.

Certain areas, like the DWB, Yavin (for our Black Sun Hunters, I'm sure you've got them too!), Quest areas on Mustafar, other "logical" places, like Hunting Grounds, Ryyatt trail, just places you'll come across people who you KNOW aren't looking for a fight.

Open to ideas, more rules, modifications of rules, etc. We could do stuff like only have prearranged battles, but that's harder to organize, or we could just do the "if they're not in a safe zone, they're fair game". If we do the safe zones correctly, this could be a lot of fun. If someone shuttles in and sees 5 people there, they are safe in the immediate area and have time to call 3 others and have a fun, fairly balanced fight, etc.

Thoughts?

Szul · Post by **Szul** » Tue Mar 21, 2006 3:20 am

No SF while warring? Bleh. Theed was fun and I wanted to go join in at Coronet tonight but wife came home just as we finished Avatar so I shut down to spend family time. Hmm, dunno about that no SF deal. Afterall, we criticized IMPHL for letting Rebels run SF in Theed on Sunday while they were guildwarring OC.

Szul · Post by **Szul** » Tue Mar 21, 2006 3:24 am

LexxYovel wrote:I dont know why it's so complicated for people to understand basic rules. I dont feel comfortable going to war if RID is going to neglect the rules we place. All that shows is that RID is undisciplined. Breaking the rules will only hurt RID, not TRGA...

Well, so far I just saw two people posting that they don't want any rules, that's hardly a decent sampling of RID's attitude as a guild. They also didn't quite say that they would refuse to follow any rules either.

Personally, when I PVP as Overt, red = dead, its them or me. But in case of guild war, I will abide by the agreed rules. I do right now anyway, because my alt is in XVI and we're in the Guildwar Network thing and we have 9 simple rules of engagement to follow.

Post by **Lexx Yovel** » Tue Mar 21, 2006 3:06 pm

The rules seem pretty basic, and I think if we nail this into the heads of the RID's, they'll follow them nicely.

I do think you should be allowed to fight SF in a guildwar, but your fighting a war already that I doubt anyone would want to.

I'm all for this. I first want to arrange a guild meeting for RID (hopefully it'll be more civilized), and we'll review the rules of engagement. We'll then have a war maybe 2 days following.

Also for those who dont want to be a part of the war, they could either:

A.) Go to some deserted location or safe zone
B.) Log on an alt that isn't in RID
C.) Log on a character on a different server

I'm still debating if we should have the "HELPER" tag act as a "dont shoot me" button.

Ty'e X'lor · Post by **Ty'e X'lor** » Tue Mar 21, 2006 8:20 pm

Like i said I believe in no mercy or leniency, I believe if its a war its a war, no one is spared. if you wish not to participate build an alt that is not RID. Or go to another server and play until the war is over but its a GUILD war therefore I think EVERYONE should take part in it. If you are a crafter or a low level player and you get blasted, oh well unfortunate casualty of war. This is my opinion feel free to oppose it. Im not saying this is how it must be, im just saying it is what I believe.

Szul · Post by **Szul** » Tue Mar 21, 2006 8:37 pm

Ty'e X'lor wrote:Like i said I believe in no mercy or leniency, I believe if its a war its a war, no one is spared. if you wish not to participate build an alt that is not RID. Or go to another server and play until the war is over but its a GUILD war therefore I think EVERYONE should take part in it. If you are a crafter or a low level player and you get blasted, oh well unfortunate casualty of war. This is my opinion feel free to oppose it. Im not saying this is how it must be, im just saying it is what I believe.

I agree with your scorched earth war attitude to a certain degree, but I ask you to stop and think about what you are saying....

Basically, the message you are sending to people is that they should go do something else and not play their character, while you play yours and hijack their guild to enjoy playing your way. NO ONE should EVER have to leave their guild or abandon their gameplay, just so others can "guildwar".

Its a guild, in a multiplayer game, its a community of varying personalities and we have to learn to get along and coexist, and yes even be friends with each other, even though we may not entirely agree on every topic or style of gameplay. I used to preach the same No Mercy mantra, until someone pointed out to me what I just pointed out to you.

Szul · Post by **Szul** » Tue Mar 21, 2006 8:42 pm

LexxYovel wrote:The rules seem pretty basic, and I think if we nail this into the heads of the RID's, they'll follow them nicely.

I do think you should be allowed to fight SF in a guildwar, but your fighting a war already that I doubt anyone would want to.

I'm all for this. I first want to arrange a guild meeting for RID (hopefully it'll be more civilized), and we'll review the rules of engagement. We'll then have a war maybe 2 days following.

Also for those who dont want to be a part of the war, they could either:

A.) Go to some deserted location or safe zone
B.) Log on an alt that isn't in RID
C.) Log on a character on a different server

I'm still debating if we should have the "HELPER" tag act as a "dont shoot me" button.

FYI, so far I am pretty impressed with the behavior of the Guildwar Ring guilds. I have yet to get ganked running around with my level 38 Trooper, people seem very respectful of the rules regarding "off-duty" status of us young Stormies when we are out of uniform and just in our Composite.

It was a little shakey at first, someone from LSR was attacking Stormies in MosE cantina while AFK and of much lower levels, but the leaders stuck to their rule enforcements and everyone plays nice now.

So be prepared to have to enforce the rules if you are going to do this, even if it means having to boot a "nice guy" from the guild even if only temporarily.

Other than that, I am agreeable to this idea and its ruleset and will abide.

Post by **Lexx Yovel** » Tue Mar 21, 2006 9:12 pm

I know everyone may have varying beliefs of how guild war should work... that's cool and all, but frankly the guild war system is just a generic "thrown in the game" aspect. They put little thought into non-fighters, clone camping, load zerging, and etc. It is our job to form rules of engagement for the good of BOTH guilds.

How on earth are we going to determine a clear victor with everyone just clone camping/load zerging? I hope no one remembers the CFM war we had about a year ago... I assume not, because we have a lot of new faces, but we basically got clone camped and embarrased.

I'd like to have a war where you can actually *see* who wins.

The aspect of "civilian casualties" in guild wars is actually an interesting aspect, but I cant see the majority going with that.

We wont have rules which will hinder someone too much. The rules are common sense... simply allow their to be a fair fight on both sides.

Also, I know no one will break the rules we put into place, but if they do, and only if they do, then we will enforce them, no matter what anyones belief on the matter may be. Also, breaking rules will only make RID look dishonorable... When that happens, forget about having people want to join RID, and forget about guildwars altogether (since no one will want to war us).

I know we've had success with past wars, so it isn't anything new. I'm sure everything will go as planned. :twisted:

Theep · Post by **Theep** » Tue Mar 21, 2006 9:38 pm

Before you read what im about to post, I want to let you know that ill follow the rules even if I dont like them.

I dont think that war should really have SO MANY RULES, I agree with no load ganking and clone camping, and I wouldnt start anything below a level 70, but if they start something then yea ill fight. I dont like the idea of only fighting planned battles. Lets say your walking around theed and you see a Rebel jedi cl 90, no real imp is gonna let that trga person go, even if I was cl 20 I would atleast keep my distance and call for back up. We should be able to fight anyone in TRGA over cl 70 when they arent loading or have just gotten cloned. Just me 5678498347239432 cents.

Post by **Lexx Yovel** » Tue Mar 21, 2006 10:20 pm

A valid argument, I agree with you completely. Keeping it simple means more people are bound to follow the rules.

I do think we should allow street fights... as street fights begin, it will soon escalate into a fullscale battle as we call in reinforcements.

I also think that all RID's should stoe clone data in Fort Oasis. This way if they die, instead of cloning in the city they died in (and risk clone camp), then can clone in Fort Oasis and regroup.

Theep · Post by **Theep** » Tue Mar 21, 2006 10:32 pm

good idea, if we do that, then only like 2 rules. How long is the average war on swg, ive on been in one and it lasted for 2 months.

Issele · Post by **Issele** » Tue Mar 21, 2006 11:13 pm

I might have an answer to all this. Why don't we do some Capture the Flag games first. Run these for a few weeks. Have RID get to know TRGA (and visa versa) and then revisit the War option. This would also allow both sides to test the waters before we war each other.

Leviathen · Post by **Leviathen** » Wed Mar 22, 2006 7:12 am

I love that idea, would be nice to know all them before we go to war.

Szul · Post by **Szul** » Wed Mar 22, 2006 12:29 pm

Theep wrote:I dont think that war should really have SO MANY RULES, I agree with no load ganking and clone camping, and I wouldnt start anything below a level 70, but if they start something then yea ill fight.

heh thats pretty much the only rules Theep. Other than declaring the safe zones, which are pretty much common sense areas and planets... the only "extra" rule is having a method to say "I want to be left alone atm", which is just wearing the Helper tag.

Post by **Lexx Yovel** » Wed Mar 22, 2006 2:52 pm

I think I prefer that idea Issele. Do you mean a standard SF vs SF capture the flag? If so that is a good way to field test members before they go to war officially.