TRGA and/or TRGAX guildwar

acer · Post by **acer** » Mon Mar 20, 2006 4:59 pm

Hey there everybody, A'cer popping in to say howdy. Issele had mentioned the possibility of a guildwar, so I figured I'd hop on over to make it easier to hammer out any details.

I have no idea if I am supposed to be restricted from any of the forums I can see, so feel free to move this thread and put it wherever you think it belongs.

So, basically, most of us over at TRGA love the idea of a guildwar, however there are some who do not wish to participate. Normally in the past we form a PvP-only sister guild, TRGAX, which we use to guildwar. It's a pretty tedious process; people join, people leave, and everyone is spammed with emails on both sides of the equation. The guild leader has to log in and give everyone their guild rights back (email, sponsor, etc), and it's just an annoying process that we would like to avoid.

In the past we've put up with the annoyance because frankly we didn't think we could trust the people we were warring to actually pay attention to rules, and to abide by them. Nothing turns someone off from PvP faster than getting load-ganked or jumped in a cantina as a CL1 Dancer. We have people in TRGA who wish to have nothing to do with this war, and will not participate, but who we fully expect to be able to go about their everyday activities.

If we can agree upon some very basic, very palatable ground rules, I think we could have a ton of fun with this war. If we cannot come to an agreement, or you don't think that all of your members would follow the rules we lay down, then we will call off the war and explore other avenues, such as using TRGAX.

We're not asking for a lot here, basic things, like:

No clone camping

No load ganking (in our -D S- war we had quite a bit of success just saying any shuttle/starport was a safe-zone)

No one under CL74 is attackable unless they are either part of an arranged battle, or attack you first. This is generally to prevent people from getting killed while just questing or grinding.

No crafter/entertainger killing. This obviously fits into the "under CL74" rule, but it's worth saying. We'd rather not have anyone killing low level chars on the other side of the war, because all it does is make those people less likely to PvP in the future.

Certain areas, like the DWB, Yavin (for our Black Sun Hunters, I'm sure you've got them too!), Quest areas on Mustafar, other "logical" places, like Hunting Grounds, Ryyatt trail, just places you'll come across people who you KNOW aren't looking for a fight.

Open to ideas, more rules, modifications of rules, etc. We could do stuff like only have prearranged battles, but that's harder to organize, or we could just do the "if they're not in a safe zone, they're fair game". If we do the safe zones correctly, this could be a lot of fun. If someone shuttles in and sees 5 people there, they are safe in the immediate area and have time to call 3 others and have a fun, fairly balanced fight, etc.

Thoughts?

Post by **Lexx Yovel** » Mon Mar 20, 2006 6:10 pm

Acer, log in as a guest for the time being. I'm going to delete this username and allow you to re-register it. There was simply a mistake regaring which forum portals you could see.

As for your plan, sounds fair enough. Lets get more feedback on it

Leviathen · Post by **Leviathen** » Mon Mar 20, 2006 6:16 pm

I have a couple ideas as to ensure the rules are abided to.

First, I can think of three ways to distinguish between people who wish to participate and those who don't. One is to agree upon a tag that would be held up by those who wish to participate, such as HELPER tag or a profession tag. Whatever it may be. As guild members log on in each guild both understand this.

Another solution, which I admit I like better, but ruins the eliment of surprise is to have communication between the two or more combatants before combat begins. It can be as simple as a /tell asking if that person wishes to have a fight or not.

Finally would be to have a piece of clothing that all combatants would wear. Say a red composite bracer on the left shoulder or something that effect.

I look forward to this war!

a'cer · Post by **a'cer** » Mon Mar 20, 2006 6:33 pm

Okay, I re-registered Acer. Looks like you're using phpbb, so if you need any pointers regarding usergroups and assigning permissions, go ahead and let me know, I've messed around with the TRGA ones enough to know them forward and backwards!

Ok, thanks for the responses folks. The clothing thing would be pretty tough to accomplish, imo. Not everyone can wear everything, armor or otherwise, so I think we should probably ditch that idea.

The tag thing might also help, but it could be possible that people in either guild may wear the Helper tag, for instance, but be a CL1 crafter, etc.

The only good thing is that there really is no death penalty anymore. If there is some miscommunication somewhere, at least there's no permanent damage. No decayed crafting suits, etc.

However, if someone goes around just trying to kill crafters to raise pvp rating, obviously something will need to be done, we don't need that type of stuff going on and I'll make it known to TRGA in no uncertain terms that it simply will not be tolerated.

Leviathen · Post by **Leviathen** » Mon Mar 20, 2006 7:03 pm

I was thinking of all the different ways I proposed, and keep in mind they would be put onTOP of the rules (ie no crafters, clone camping, etc) and the only one I can think of that is sure fire is to have communication between the two combatants first.

Szul · Post by **Szul** » Tue Mar 21, 2006 1:27 am

Leviathen wrote:I was thinking of all the different ways I proposed, and keep in mind they would be put onTOP of the rules (ie no crafters, clone camping, etc) and the only one I can think of that is sure fire is to have communication between the two combatants first.

Uhm no. Might as well skip the guildwar and /duel if you're going to discuss it first. Its spontaneous PVP we're after here. As for the rest of the ideas, sorry to be blunt but they're not necessary and won't work.

One thing with guildwarring, is that the rules have to be short, sweet, simple and crystal clear. Acer proposed a good set, I see no need to add more confusion to it.

Szul · Post by **Szul** » Tue Mar 21, 2006 1:39 am

a'cer wrote:However, if someone goes around just trying to kill crafters to raise pvp rating, obviously something will need to be done, we don't need that type of stuff going on and I'll make it known to TRGA in no uncertain terms that it simply will not be tolerated.

I don't believe that anyone in RID cares about PVP rating. Its a good group of people, I haven't seen them PVP in a typical ganker mentality yet.

I'd say that safe zones should be as follows:
Endor, Dathomir, Kashyyk, Mustafar and a 128m radius around all shuttles and Starport entrances. 128m because you can set your radar for that to judge distance of their dot, yet 64m is too short and inside the 75m rifle range) edit: Also cantinas, I forgot about those.

Now Lev's tag idea is actually in use with the Guildwar Ring. We do use the AFK tag to denote non-participants, but its a pain in the ass to keep it up as it goes away too often due to this or that. If you want to use tags for CL 74+ people who do NOT want PVPing, then have them just wear Helper tag. Easy to spot, easy to change and doesn't go away everytime you sneeze. Helper tag = non-PVP, the Do Not Disturb sign is hung.

Other than those clarifications, everything else seems simple and easy to remember.

a'cer · Post by **a'cer** » Tue Mar 21, 2006 1:23 pm

I think that sounds like a good distinction, however, I would like to add to your "Helper Tag" rule.

I wear the Helper tag on a couple of my characters, have for years. I expect it will be easy after a couple of fights (get some ideas as to who fights and who you've never seen fight), but my addendum would be this:

If someone is seen with a Helper tag fighting, they are fair game. I look at this from both sides. In our DS war, people would put it up and try to snipe people, hoping not to get attacked and just be pricks about it. On the other hand, a lot of our people wear the Helper tag 24/7, and will NOT expect to be left alone. If you see A'cer fighting with Helper tag on Monday, on Tuesday and for the rest of the war, if he ventures out of a safe zone, he is fair game. Safe zones still apply, but if a person with a Helper tag is seen fighting, we can assume either they've forgotten it's up, never intend to take it down, or are trying to be sneaky about it, lol.

Sound reasonable to everyone?

Szul · Post by **Szul** » Tue Mar 21, 2006 2:32 pm

Heh well from what I read on the SOE forums from DS members, they mostly are exploitive ganker pricks and I'd expect no less from them. A pretty good rule of thumb that I've always used, is that if someone actually cares about their PVP rating, then they're nothing more than a PVP ganker who can't be trusted to bother following any rules. They'll cheat, lie and steal or just run away to maintain that PVP rating. But, like I said, I don't think anyone in RID is like that. PVP is kind of casual and actually Imperial based, unlike most Imp PVP guilds I've seen who are Imp only because there are lots of Rebels for target practice.

lol :lol:

well anyway, the Helper tag addendum sounds fine to me. I think you are right about getting idea of who is who after a day or two, especially if a Helper wearer tries to gank you. My thoughs were just that its not a tag that anyone needs to wear, most people wearing it hate Qs from noobs anyway, and it doesn't disappear on loading or logging out. That way it gives players in both guilds wanting a break or not to get involved an easy means of identification.

Post by **Lexx Yovel** » Tue Mar 21, 2006 2:45 pm

It's a shame there isn't a way to change who chooses to fight or not fight.

The helper tag is a good idea. I just hope no one flips it on immediately when they see an enemy. Or turning it on/off to find loop holes.

acer · Post by **acer** » Tue Mar 21, 2006 6:04 pm

I agree Szul, I say we go with it then. I'll let people know to turn off helper tags, and only use them. Obviously a little common sense is good too. If someone is standing at a bazaar with a helper tag up, I would expect that my guys would leave them alone, etc.

When are you guys looking to "activate" the war?

Post by **Lexx Yovel** » Tue Mar 21, 2006 9:02 pm

I wish to hold a guild meeting with RID Saturday to cover the basics. The day following (Sunday), we can begin war.

Is that alright?

Theep · Post by **Theep** » Tue Mar 21, 2006 9:56 pm

Lexx, im busy saturday and dont want to miss the meeting, can you plz post the time of the meeting here or pm it to me. I have a carwash to go to and I have a track meet also, I dont want to miss it though. Could you plz post a time so I can try and go there.

Post by **Lexx Yovel** » Tue Mar 21, 2006 10:18 pm

It will likely be at 7 PM EST. If that time doesn't fit into your schedule I'll send you a mail with an update of what was covered.

Leviathen · Post by **Leviathen** » Tue Mar 21, 2006 11:25 pm

Perhaps... if possible, we could hold two meetings? One at evening one in the morning? I don't know if this would help anyone or if it woul dbe too much of a hassle.