My only problem with RID

[Vogik]

The recruiting policy.. Oh, and dont take anything personally thats written in this post, but..

You guys recruit too many starters. In my opinion, in order to advance and earn the respect of other guilds in SWG, you need to be more selective in recruiting. Place requirements for new recruits, such as you need to be at least lvl 80 (unless you are an alt of a guild member), you need to be imperial, or you need to be a trader.

Then what you do next is give them a 30 day trial, to come pvp with us, get to know us, and play with us. After the 30 day trial, the elders of the guild (5-10 of us) vote upon this applicant in a restricted area of the forums. They determine if hes mature enough, or let alone good enough to give RID a good name in the galaxy. I mean, right now it seems that we are recruiting anyone and everyone that wants to join. And if this is what you want lexx, ill shut my mouth But in my ideal guild, the recruiting is selective, to create a good core of players that know what they are doing.


All in favor.. Aye! (even though its up to lexx )

[Lexx Yovel]

Your idea is well thought out... basically the only thing that gets in the way is well... lazyness (on my part I might add). I also try to force myself to strict recruiting but I get lax on my recruiting policies overtime.

I often feel rushed, to either log off or whatnot and say, "okay, I threw you an application lets meet in Fort Oasis so we can recruit you." It's become a systematic robotic response. I instinctively write, "/salute, welcome to RID. As a member you may now use guild chat and guild mail. You may also sponsor new recruits, but only myself, a commander, or captain may recruit fully. RID forums are at www.abstraction.com/ridboard, please register there when you log. RID colors are red/black, and RID uniform will be provided momentarily. Fort Oasis is RID's capital city. Any city that begins with "Fort" is likely a RID city as well. RID was founded November 27th of 2003. That's all you need to know. Question? Thought not, lets get your uniform, and good luck to you. /salute, and welcome to RID again!"

That's how it works, and no it's not good

Also another factor is a look at the guild list, see 3 members online, and say to myself... jeeze I guess I need to recruit. I go out to Eisley or Theed and type /who Imperial. Any unguilded Imperials that pop up I send a tell saying, "Hello there, might you be interested in joining an Imperial guild named the Regal Imperial Defenders?" They either respond with, "no thanks," or, "sure." If they say no thanks, I reply, "okay but take care!" If they say sure, I say, "Great! I'll send you some info and an application!."

That about sums it up... so we'll try and fix it.

Firstly, recruiting unguilded Imperials that are above level 80 is tricky. They are either not interested in joining a guild, or are already a part of an Imperial guild. I could go through all the trouble of pursuading Imperials to leave their own Imperial guilds... but I can't justify doing that. I wouldn't like it if another guild pursuaded a RID member to leave and join their guild, so that's out of the question.

The thing about new players it this. They are Imperial... low level... not the brightest of peeps. But they are fresh blood. Eventually they level and start to get the big picture. Problem is it takes a while and the journy is tedious. I'd much rather get elder or skilled players but they are scarce... and are already "harvested." I am willing to recruit slowly though, if it means a steady flow of experienced players... so we'll give it a shot. But if I ever get lax again I need RID to shoot me. We also need RID to actively use these forums and get involved in recruitment procedures.

So we'll do this...

We will never recruit more than 3 people a week... unless they are alts of a RID. Close friends or family of a RID member will be accepted more easily but still need to go through a process. So say we get an unguilded Imperial fighter proffesion (I think a reasonable minimum CL should be 60). If he's interested in joining, we give him a 1-2 week trial (you say 30 days, but I think we can handle 1-2 weeks). We sponsor the recruit, but *dont* recruit him completely. He will be given a tour of RID's cities... and given a brief history about RID, and what we expect of him. If he shows characteristics of being stubborn, selfish, or begging for items, it'll be tallied.

In addition to the application we send, I can maybe write a "score sheet" and I will tally a score for the RID member. It'll be like this:

Social Personality: 0-20
Proffesion Skill: 0-20
Online Activity: 0-20
Leadership: 0-20
Listening Skill: 0-20

Social Personality is a very general term... it basically covers how much the recruit will use guild chat, forums, and communicate. It also covers how helpful the recruit is, and his honesty and honor. It's a very general term. Basically we want to avoid the things we listed earlier such as stubborness, immaturity, ignorance, among other things. It's important for the recruit to understand guilds dont serve them, but they serve the guild... because ultimately, THEY are just a part of the guild as anyone else.

Proffesion skill is pretty straightford. If he's a trader we tally how he crafts items, what vendors he can place or whatever... If he's a combat or support proffesion, we put him to the test in PvE, PvP, and maybe space. We will cover everything from 1 on 1 duels to grouped RID hunts.

Online activity is straigtford as well. We understand people cant be online all the time, but we want to avoid recruiting someone who will ultimately play maybe once a month or become inactivity.

Leadership isn't in everyone... and that's fine. This is one of the few attributes that the recruit may fail in. None the less we need to test him... because who knows, maybe he'll become a Commander or Captains. We'd make him group leader, and RID will do whatever the recruit says we should do. If it ends up with bad results or a victory, it will be tallied.

Listening Skill! If the recruit fails at Leadership, that's fine, because he can make up for it in Listening Skill. Some people are followers, not leaders... however, if the recruit did well at Leadership, but fails in Listening Skill, then thats a problem because all it shows is that the recruit is unwilling to follow orders, because he has the idea that only he should lead. Basically if you pass in Leadership, you must pass in Listening Skill. If you fail at Leadership... you well, must pass at Listening Skill. Listening skill is just the opposite, but having him a group to follow orders. If he follows them well, he passes... if he goes wandering off to do his own thing, not listening, he fails.

If the total tally adds up to be *at least* 70, then the recruit will be brought to the guild hall after... lets just say a 15 day trial. There myself, and 3 Commanders and/or Captains will meet to interview the recruit. We will bring up where his weaknesses were on the tally, and review the application he sent. If all is done well, he will be given a uniform, maybe a weapon, and is welcomed to RID.

Feedback?

[Vogik]

Well I still stick with my idea, because right now, we already have a decent core, of myself, you, apium, and a few others that i cant think of off the top of my head. Now we build on that.. We go out to restuss nightly, pvp and show off our skills.. I myself know plenty of tactics that work extremely well in restuss and theed, even when we are out numbered. I guarentee that if you stick near me in pvp, we'll do well. So once other people see what the New RID consists of, they'll want to join.

We'll have a 30 day application process, where they apply, get a 30 day trial membership, then on the 30th day the elders will vote. If the applicant isnt cut out for RID's standards, theyll be forced to leave. If they are good enough, we welcome them with open arms.

I agree with what we should rate them on.. We should determine if they are cut out for RID depending on their ability to listen to the leader in PVP, how well they get along with us, and they should be active. But the one I stress is being able to listen, not be a hero. In my opinion, if you are going to be some hero and run from our group to chase down a jedi, you dont belong in my group..

This all may sound harsh, but its the truth.

Lexx, if you need help with the recruiting process, I'll help. But the first thing we'd have to do is start pvping and getting our name out as a strong force in the empire. Under this plan, i can see RID becoming an alpha-imperial guild.

[Lexx Yovel]

This 30 day recruitment process... would it involve the recruit actually being a part of RID, or working with RID outside the actual guild? Either way works for me, just want to clarify. If you stick with 30 day trial, that's fine by me, we can handel it.

PvP is a major part, although not the entire part of RID, so we'll try covering other aspects such as space and PvE. I agree, Listening is possibly one of the most important aspects. If you can listen, your likely to have a good "Social Personality," and if you listen, you very well could learn to lead and fight effectively.

For the memembers currently *in* RID, we should start by training them before we extensively recruit more. There are inactives, but we can remove them when the time is right.

[Vogik]

This 30 day recruitment process... would it involve the recruit actually being a part of RID, or working with RID outside the actual guild? Either way works for me, just want to clarify. If you stick with 30 day trial, that's fine by me, we can handel it.

PvP is a major part, although not the entire part of RID, so we'll try covering other aspects such as space and PvE. I agree, Listening is possibly one of the most important aspects. If you can listen, your likely to have a good "Social Personality," and if you listen, you very well could learn to lead and fight effectively.

For the memembers currently *in* RID, we should start by training them before we extensively recruit more. There are inactives, but we can remove them when the time is right.

For the 30 day process, they would be in the guild.

I agree, pvp is not the only aspect of RID, but it is a major part. I agree, we should recruit people that are interested in PVE and Space, but we need to get a strong PVP base also. And of course, we can recruit traders

For now, I say we halt recruiting. We should send out a guild mail telling them of these changes, and saying that if they dont want to be part of this, they can leave. If they want to be part, they should start grinding, and we'll work on them to get them ready. After this phase, we'll really kick up our PVP, then start recruiting solid players.

[Kurke_Aumea]

K.I.S.S.

Keep It Simple Stupid.

Yeha, it sounds retarded, but it works. Remember the whole fiasco wih divisions? I forsee a similar fate if you try some sort of fancy rating system for new recruits. I say if you do any sort of rating system at all, do one of those 1 to 10 scales.

Both arguments make good points (and it's really cool seeing constructive criticism for once), but the thing that both arguments is missing is guild participation. Lexx may be in charge, but he isn't the only one who can bring in new people and evaluate them.

Vogik has the right idea though. Get out there and show off your skills to peeps. Show them why being an Imperial rocks.

You also need to have some sort of ealuation period for recruits though. I would say shorten it to 14 days though. 30 s too long and by then you'll forget who you are reruiting. That's assuming your recruits keep interet for 30 days. You forget, gamers want what the want now, not later.

OK, those are some of my friendly suggestions.

[Vogik]

K.I.S.S.

Keep It Simple Stupid.

Yeha, it sounds retarded, but it works. Remember the whole fiasco wih divisions? I forsee a similar fate if you try some sort of fancy rating system for new recruits. I say if you do any sort of rating system at all, do one of those 1 to 10 scales.

Both arguments make good points (and it's really cool seeing constructive criticism for once), but the thing that both arguments is missing is guild participation. Lexx may be in charge, but he isn't the only one who can bring in new people and evaluate them.

Vogik has the right idea though. Get out there and show off your skills to peeps. Show them why being an Imperial rocks.

You also need to have some sort of ealuation period for recruits though. I would say shorten it to 14 days though. 30 s too long and by then you'll forget who you are reruiting. That's assuming your recruits keep interet for 30 days. You forget, gamers want what the want now, not later.

OK, those are some of my friendly suggestions.

I think this would be a really simple system if we have 5-10 people using it to make it work. I dont think we should do the whole rating thing, but at the end of the trial period, we should vote and decide whether or not we feel the applicant if fit for RID.

I know lexx may be in charge, and i agree, he isnt the only one that can bring people into RID. This system would change that. People would come to us (unless we ask if they would want to try joining RID).. Then it'd just come down to the players compatibility and our votes at teh end of our trial to determine if they get in.

And yeah, we can consider the 14 day trial instead of the 30 day.

One thing that we'd need:
A new section in the forums that only RID members can see, called the "Voting Center for Recruits". Only the elders that I said would be able to post in here. Once an applicant starts his/her trial, lexx would post in here saying that "[name]'s trial has started and we will vote on him/her in 14/30 days."

After that period, the elders would post in there yes/no and possibly reasons why.

Imo, perfect system.

[Vogik]

Oh and I agree, this captain/commander thing should go.. You should select 5 elders in the guild to have those rights.. After that you can just designate someone in charge of Traders and they can take care of the mall.

[Kurke_Aumea]

Oh and I agree, this captain/commander thing should go.. You should select 5 elders in the guild to have those rights.. After that you can just designate someone in charge of Traders and they can take care of the mall.

Actually, the whole idea behind ranks was for role playing and organizational purpose. It would have worked a lot better if more people would have participated in it better. But, since most people just want to go blow shit up, the whole rank thing never went so well...

[Vogik]

We should start ironing out the details of this new system though..

Trial Period: 14 or 30 days (You guys decide)
Requirements: Imperial; at least level 80, preferably 90, or an alt of a member, or a trader (you guys can iron out the level requirement though)
RID Elders: I think 5 or 6 would be enough.. Lexx needs to decide who they will be /cough
We will need a seperate section of the RID Board designated for voting, where only the Elders can post.

Basically after that, we just mkae our votes... We'll have to decide who should be leading pvp.. I'd be willing to do this. I have plenty of tactics that i've picked up that are proven to work if everyone sticks together.

[Leviathen]

I believe I have recommended something similiar, was meant with the same response by Kurke not surprisingly

However, a system like this is actually quite simple if well organized.

[Kardath]

Personally I don't care much for the idea. Imperials are sorely lacking ingame right now, and being too picky on recruits will keep the guild small, when right now I think what we need is stronger numbers.

Also a rating system won't work for everyone, atleast I think it wouldn't. People play all different times, and if the recruits happen to play at times when other members aren't ingame then how would you vote on someone you've never played with?

My gametime for example is 80% late nights/early am mornings, after 2am most times. And what I think of as the core rid members are never on at that time. So how would they be able to evalute players who are on at the times they aren't?

One other thought, still speaking for myself, ranking new recruits based on pvp events or rid events might not work out for everyone either. Personally I have real life obligations that usually keep me offline at the prime time for rid events, a lot of other players as well from what I've read about turnouts and whatnot. How would that be worked into the ranking /voting system for new recruits?

[Apium]

Thats what imphl does. They have a council. In RID lexx has full power.

[Kardath]

Thats what imphl does. They have a council. In RID lexx has full power.

Lors please don't make rid into a imphl clone. They're 99% assholes in that guild.

[Lexx Yovel]

Okay, after reading the ideas, this is what I think we should do...

1.) I agree a 14 day trial period is best. It's hard to lose attention after 30 days... it's an entire month, a relatively big chunk out of the year. 14 days would be suitable to evaluate someone.

2.) I still think a minimum of CL 80 is too strict. I recommended CL 60, but maybe we can make a deal and say CL 70. CL 70 in my eyes is the point in which you can be relatively decent in combat. With the exclusion of traders, entertainers, and alts, we'd need level 70 or higher. I still dont know about medics though... because those are in high demand.

3.) Instead of RID elders... I say we should use the 3 Commanders and the 3 Captains combined. It'd be difficult to assign "elders" and we need to do something productive with the Commanders and Captains (who are basically elders anyways). But Vogik, I can make your crafter alt Captain of the Commercial Division so you may participate in voting. Kuiloe will be Commander. Amaroo and Erougn will take care of Combat Division, Apium and Yjdeg will take care of the Jedi, Neva and Saipo take care of Combat Division, and you and Kuiloe take care of Commercial. That is a pretty strong base of players there. I only see needing to replace Yjdeg or Saipo because I haven't seen them online much. I don't know about creating an entirely new forum for this... but maybe we can use the Personal Database forum where only Captains and Commanders may vote. If that doesn't work out, we can just have the Commanders and Captains send in-game mails.

I don't really want to change the ranking system in RID (trust me I've changed it so much already, it's like changing the SWG game system each week)... but just because you may not hold a combat rank, feel free to utilize your tactics and spread your information to RID.

Also, for those feeling this will make our guild small... that may be true, but it's quality over quantity. Plus numbers will go up gradually if we recruit 3-5 a month.

I also feel Toor would make a great Jedi captain under Apium. As for Combat Support... I *think* Erougn could be moved to the Captain position, and Vogik I could move you to Combat Captain or Commander... but then your alt wont be able to hold a Commercial Rank position (in which someone else will run).