Well, I guess I'm looking at big picture here and the future more than our current player base, which is rather dismal. We could go about it 2 ways of course. 1) Make the division, and give them a chance to flourish. Let them recruit people for the guild who want to pvp for their Division. If they can't make it work, fine, reabsorb them back in the Army. 2) We could go about it the other way, start them out as a subdivision of the Army with their own Captain to oversee stuff, and then if they got large and independent enough then branch them out.
My Primary reason to give them their own division is I don't want to hear any more grousing at other Army division members because they choose not to pvp. Guild chat complaints that no one will come help a pvper who wants back up will just drive your pve players out of the guild, because they feel unappreciated and pressured to play in a way they don't like.
My secondary reason is to give the PvPers more consideration and priority than they have now. Their needs and wants from the guild are not being met or represented. They don't have any activities, groups, or events being planned just for them. That kind of work demands the full attention of an Officer, it's a full-time job doing that stuff. I think if they're going to have to put that much work into organizing and running stuff then they deserve their own full division. If you're going to have to appoint a new officer anyway, might as well make it a division. Give them some pride of place. There's a lot of pride involved in PvP playing guys, they deserve that recognition as their own player group.
My third reason is to give respect to the opinions of both Xoseh and Apium that the Army exists to fight in the Galactic Civil War. I can't really argue with that logic. We have a problem though, where can pver's go in the guild then? Lumping them together (sorry but a subdivision still feels like they're lumped together) doesn't really CHANGE anything. I mean you can keep changing names and titles around til you are blue in the face but that's not going to get more people in guild to pvp, or more people recruited who like to pvp, or give current guild pvpers more to do.
So far, we're supposed to be talking about the ARMY here, and so far, every single post I've seen has all been about the PVP players. They don't even make up 1/10th of the members of the guild's ground combat base, but they're getting all the attention and emphasis placed on what they want, and I just don't think saying to them "ok, here you go, you are now Army A division! Congrats! You're in the official PVP subdivision how does it feel?" will solve any problems here.
I agree with you Kurke, your concern about breaking the guild up into too many small pieces is valid. Right now, let's be brutal. We can't even man our existing divisions with full ACTIVE playing Officers, much less members.
RID Divisions: Brainstorming Thread
Moderator:Lexx Yovel
I am completely against creating a new division of any type. At this point, we need to do what is best so each area of the guild can flourish with what it has now. I would never consider joining an Army PvP division, because I still want all the perks of being in the PvE division, so what you end up with is the Army PvE division with all of the PvPers in it as well as their own division. Which is exactly what was originally proposed. Everyone will be in the PvE subdivision by default and then in addition to being a member of the PvE subdivision one can join the PvP subdivision. They aren't really equal subdivisions, its better to think of them as the covert and overt in the GCW system or as the elite and starter professions of the Pre-NGE.
Anyways, this needs to be voted on soon because until this is decided its obvious we aren't going to get anything else accomplished.
Anyways, this needs to be voted on soon because until this is decided its obvious we aren't going to get anything else accomplished.
swtor: Aeroxis
Apium Auvair- Master Medic
Kalice- Master Architect
Aurelie Auvair- Jedi Master
Victoire Auvair- Master Armorsmith
Apium Auvair- Master Medic
Kalice- Master Architect
Aurelie Auvair- Jedi Master
Victoire Auvair- Master Armorsmith
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Saurat Seerdon
- Lieutenant Colonel
- Posts:525
- Joined:Tue Apr 15, 2008 6:58 pm
- Location:Kaas City
- Contact:
I agree that there should be a separate PVP division, but players should have the right equipment (that they can obtain through mustafar, kashyyyk, and heroics) before being recruited into that division, since the stuff that is involved in acquiring that is primarily related to doing PVE stuff (weapons, crystal buffs, jewelry, etc) unless you must have an enormous amount of credits to just outright buy it all...GLC going for 90 million? come on!
It should take alot of effort to get into that 'special forces' division, as i believe that it should consist of the best equipped pvpers in the guild, regardless of how many are "in it".
I consider doing the pve stuff as a sort of 'basic combat training' prior to guild members entering the SF division:
First we get anywheres between 3-8 prospects, then we send them off to 'basic combat training'
Red Phase: acquiring abilities and weapons
Prospects Completes the Imperial Theme Park, travels to Kashyyyk and Mustafar to learn basic group survival techniques, learns how to utilize combat enhancements (buffs), and to acquire weapons. (glc, coynite distruptor, ld1, banes heart, etc)
Black Phase: Special Forces Advanced Group Training
Prospects goes through heroic instances however many times it takes to complete set of heroic wear and to obtain weapons
If another heroic encounter comes out, well, that would be the division's "pve event" or consider it to be like going to an advanced training course for the new equipment and gear.
Rights of Passage Phase: Obtaining the rank of General
Once the future members of the SF division complete their set of gear, their next mission will be to obtain the rank of general. this should be done through the Restuss Commendation thing, where each member must strive to get all of the commendation rewards. Killing 100 rebel npcs in restuss for the 1,000 gcw points is almost too easy with a group, with a well-equipped sf group, many rebel players will fall, and the gcw tick will be huge.
After the SF division's prospects have attained the rank of General, a special ceremony should take place.
After thinking about PVP and PVE divisions a bit and what could result in a odd situation for a 'SF only' member, anyway this is what i came up with:
What if for instance, a friend in another guild wants you to go in a group with them to take out IG-88 (or any other instance)? I really don't see a reason not to help out as long as they are of the Imperial faction and you are not currently involved in a battle. The SF division should primarily focus on PVP stuff but there are circumstances where it should be acceptable to lend a strong hand to fellow imperials that need it.
The more better equipped the Empire is, the better for all of us. However, the SF division members should not pursue the looking for groups for heroic instances, as they should already have the equipment from them, and should be using it as often as possible against the special forces members of the rebel alliance.
I go by section 3 of the Regalistic Constitution:
3.) One must never show mercy to a Special Forces Rebel in combat, unless a higher authority orders a cease fire on the said target, or engaging the said target would endanger the lives of your fellow soldiers, within, or outside the Regal Imperial Defenders. Otherwise, all Rebel targets and insurgents must be wiped out, as they are a clear threat to the Emperor's will.
It should take alot of effort to get into that 'special forces' division, as i believe that it should consist of the best equipped pvpers in the guild, regardless of how many are "in it".
I consider doing the pve stuff as a sort of 'basic combat training' prior to guild members entering the SF division:
First we get anywheres between 3-8 prospects, then we send them off to 'basic combat training'
Red Phase: acquiring abilities and weapons
Prospects Completes the Imperial Theme Park, travels to Kashyyyk and Mustafar to learn basic group survival techniques, learns how to utilize combat enhancements (buffs), and to acquire weapons. (glc, coynite distruptor, ld1, banes heart, etc)
Black Phase: Special Forces Advanced Group Training
Prospects goes through heroic instances however many times it takes to complete set of heroic wear and to obtain weapons
If another heroic encounter comes out, well, that would be the division's "pve event" or consider it to be like going to an advanced training course for the new equipment and gear.
Rights of Passage Phase: Obtaining the rank of General
Once the future members of the SF division complete their set of gear, their next mission will be to obtain the rank of general. this should be done through the Restuss Commendation thing, where each member must strive to get all of the commendation rewards. Killing 100 rebel npcs in restuss for the 1,000 gcw points is almost too easy with a group, with a well-equipped sf group, many rebel players will fall, and the gcw tick will be huge.
After the SF division's prospects have attained the rank of General, a special ceremony should take place.
After thinking about PVP and PVE divisions a bit and what could result in a odd situation for a 'SF only' member, anyway this is what i came up with:
What if for instance, a friend in another guild wants you to go in a group with them to take out IG-88 (or any other instance)? I really don't see a reason not to help out as long as they are of the Imperial faction and you are not currently involved in a battle. The SF division should primarily focus on PVP stuff but there are circumstances where it should be acceptable to lend a strong hand to fellow imperials that need it.
The more better equipped the Empire is, the better for all of us. However, the SF division members should not pursue the looking for groups for heroic instances, as they should already have the equipment from them, and should be using it as often as possible against the special forces members of the rebel alliance.
I go by section 3 of the Regalistic Constitution:
3.) One must never show mercy to a Special Forces Rebel in combat, unless a higher authority orders a cease fire on the said target, or engaging the said target would endanger the lives of your fellow soldiers, within, or outside the Regal Imperial Defenders. Otherwise, all Rebel targets and insurgents must be wiped out, as they are a clear threat to the Emperor's will.
Apathy is Death.
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Barney
I'm not sure how being a member of the PvP division, as a separate division would exclude any players from "perks" of PvE activities. I don't see myself refusing to allow Navy Division Members to join in the PVE groups I'm already running now, why would the PVP people be treated any different than ANY guild member except that by having their own division, and leadership, they'd be more focused and get a bit more attention than they are getting now.
This is a brainstorming thread, I see no need to rush to voting on anything here, this is just the first topic of all the ideas and checklist items being gone over, and we don't even have the majority of the interested guild members signed on the forums or reading any of this yet in the first place.
This is a brainstorming thread, I see no need to rush to voting on anything here, this is just the first topic of all the ideas and checklist items being gone over, and we don't even have the majority of the interested guild members signed on the forums or reading any of this yet in the first place.
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Lexx Yovel
- RID Leader/Mayor
- Posts:5390
- Joined:Fri May 14, 2004 10:26 am
- Location:Fort Oasis, Tatooine
My gaming personality:
SKEA players enjoy teamwork and cooperation, but feel that the main challenges of a virtual world come from the other players rather than the environment. They enjoy forming groups and alliances that will pit themselves against other players--and they gain the most satisfaction when they defeat organized groups of other players. When they aren't playing against other players, they enjoy all of the social aspects of the game.
Breakdown: Achiever 6.67%, Explorer 60.00%, Killer 66.67%, Socializer 66.67%
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Anyways, I'm not a big fan of adding extra divisions. I think the odds are that if you are great at PvE, you can probably be decent at PvP, and vice-versa. The only problem is a conflict in interests. However, I think while the Army is intended to be more PvP-centric, it should include the higher end PvE players. Creating a new division would just spread the players thin and require too many Commanders/Captains.
A squad sub-division would be better, but even that is complicated. I think it's up to the Commander/Captain to evaluate their division member's individual interests. They should know off the top of their head which divisions members enjoy PvP, which ones enjoy PvE, or which ones enjoy both. When forming a PvP group, they can call upon those interested in PvP, and require PvE'ers to come only if they are in need of much backup.
It's really up to the Commanders/Captains to select members for their divisions carefully, and evaluate their personalities and interests.
SKEA players enjoy teamwork and cooperation, but feel that the main challenges of a virtual world come from the other players rather than the environment. They enjoy forming groups and alliances that will pit themselves against other players--and they gain the most satisfaction when they defeat organized groups of other players. When they aren't playing against other players, they enjoy all of the social aspects of the game.
Breakdown: Achiever 6.67%, Explorer 60.00%, Killer 66.67%, Socializer 66.67%
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Anyways, I'm not a big fan of adding extra divisions. I think the odds are that if you are great at PvE, you can probably be decent at PvP, and vice-versa. The only problem is a conflict in interests. However, I think while the Army is intended to be more PvP-centric, it should include the higher end PvE players. Creating a new division would just spread the players thin and require too many Commanders/Captains.
A squad sub-division would be better, but even that is complicated. I think it's up to the Commander/Captain to evaluate their division member's individual interests. They should know off the top of their head which divisions members enjoy PvP, which ones enjoy PvE, or which ones enjoy both. When forming a PvP group, they can call upon those interested in PvP, and require PvE'ers to come only if they are in need of much backup.
It's really up to the Commanders/Captains to select members for their divisions carefully, and evaluate their personalities and interests.
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Barney
I'm updating our checklist and numbering our topics so we can stay on-target from topic to topic. Two current topics being discussed right now are red.
Checklist
PvP
1) Separate Division or Subdivision for PvP?
---IDEAS:
---Make RID all pvp guild
---Make subdivisions in Army for PVP/PVE clearly defined –tag members as Army-PVE/Army-PvP for planning, and scheduling convenience?
---Move all PVE and Helper/info related members to Intel and keep Army all PvP
---Make a 5th Division for only PvP
---Make Army (or PvP subDiv) required that people be SF "on-call"
---Split Army to PVP/PVE subdivisions and add Captain position for each subdivision under the Commander
2) Policy regarding an "on call" list or something similar
---Ideas Discussed:
---Make specialized SF Groups assigned to certain tasks, IE Police Group, Raider Group, Exterminator Groups
3) How to go about planning PvP events
---IDEAS:
---Goal-Oriented Events/Activities, IE, Major Planetary Cities re-alignment, Base search and destroys, static base movements, quests/activities in Restuss.
4) PvP training
IDEAS:
---Multi phased combat training
---Group people together in training/leveling groups
---require “right of passage” before inclusion in a PvP division or sub division
5) PvP equipment
IDEAS:
---Factional Armor Uniforms?
6) Discuss RID's image as PvPers (is it good? bad? terrible? RID sucks? RIDs are bad sports? and if it is bad how can we improve it?)
7) Policies regarding guild wars
Discuss regular PvP RID events scheduling
IDEAS:
---Role of Intel in providing info on bases found, sf people outside restuss, planetary control information.
9) Getting GCW alternatively
10) Base Busting
PvE
11) Finalize a looting policy
---Ideas Discussed:
---Change loot to equip PvP players or other more deserving guild members first
12) Discuss a format to be used for all official instance groups (I mean mails and announcements btw)
13) PvE/instance training
14) PvE equipment
15) Plan for dealing with complaints
16) Discuss regular PVE RID events scheduling
17) Relationship with Commercial Division
Checklist
PvP
1) Separate Division or Subdivision for PvP?
---IDEAS:
---Make RID all pvp guild
---Make subdivisions in Army for PVP/PVE clearly defined –tag members as Army-PVE/Army-PvP for planning, and scheduling convenience?
---Move all PVE and Helper/info related members to Intel and keep Army all PvP
---Make a 5th Division for only PvP
---Make Army (or PvP subDiv) required that people be SF "on-call"
---Split Army to PVP/PVE subdivisions and add Captain position for each subdivision under the Commander
2) Policy regarding an "on call" list or something similar
---Ideas Discussed:
---Make specialized SF Groups assigned to certain tasks, IE Police Group, Raider Group, Exterminator Groups
3) How to go about planning PvP events
---IDEAS:
---Goal-Oriented Events/Activities, IE, Major Planetary Cities re-alignment, Base search and destroys, static base movements, quests/activities in Restuss.
4) PvP training
IDEAS:
---Multi phased combat training
---Group people together in training/leveling groups
---require “right of passage” before inclusion in a PvP division or sub division
5) PvP equipment
IDEAS:
---Factional Armor Uniforms?
6) Discuss RID's image as PvPers (is it good? bad? terrible? RID sucks? RIDs are bad sports? and if it is bad how can we improve it?)
7) Policies regarding guild wars
Discuss regular PvP RID events scheduling
IDEAS:
---Role of Intel in providing info on bases found, sf people outside restuss, planetary control information.
9) Getting GCW alternatively
10) Base Busting
PvE
11) Finalize a looting policy
---Ideas Discussed:
---Change loot to equip PvP players or other more deserving guild members first
12) Discuss a format to be used for all official instance groups (I mean mails and announcements btw)
13) PvE/instance training
14) PvE equipment
15) Plan for dealing with complaints
16) Discuss regular PVE RID events scheduling
17) Relationship with Commercial Division
Thanks for updating the checklist, Barney, it looks good.
Yea, we are going to need some simple plan for moving between topics or we may very well be stuck on the first one for weeks. Everyone here has made their position pretty clear, so we need to get more people here. We haven't heard from very many people that will actually be in the army division. A set amount of time is good or if Lexx just wants to decide when the topic has been discussed enough. Its probably best that he picks the ideas he is willing to accept for each topic and then moves them to a vote in the officer forum. We have to remember that RID is not a democracy
Yea, we are going to need some simple plan for moving between topics or we may very well be stuck on the first one for weeks. Everyone here has made their position pretty clear, so we need to get more people here. We haven't heard from very many people that will actually be in the army division. A set amount of time is good or if Lexx just wants to decide when the topic has been discussed enough. Its probably best that he picks the ideas he is willing to accept for each topic and then moves them to a vote in the officer forum. We have to remember that RID is not a democracy
swtor: Aeroxis
Apium Auvair- Master Medic
Kalice- Master Architect
Aurelie Auvair- Jedi Master
Victoire Auvair- Master Armorsmith
Apium Auvair- Master Medic
Kalice- Master Architect
Aurelie Auvair- Jedi Master
Victoire Auvair- Master Armorsmith
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Barney
Yup, I keep hearing the Muppet song in my head "Moving Right Along".
I posted a step by step procedure in the Officer's forums, once Lexx and everyone agrees/amends it to their preference then we can start next phase for these two topics, which is voting/announcement then move on to topic 2. I'm gonna wait til we decide on procedure first so it all runs smooth smooth.
I'm planning to be happy happy secretary for this and post guild mails reminding people each time we start a new topic for discussion, and announcing policy made for last topic so people can be updated and see we ARE making progress and also be shamed into their lack of participation.
Technically, RID is a Republic. Based on the idea that representatives are appointed (Officers) for specific interest groups and entrusted to put off their personal interests in order to best serve the needs of their followers (their divisions).
Democracy is a bad idea. The problem with that is that minority interests are too often drowned out by the overwhelming majority opinions and popularities, which then created suppressed peoples, lack of diversity in culture and ideas, and the development of tyranical empires created on a cult of personality.
I posted a step by step procedure in the Officer's forums, once Lexx and everyone agrees/amends it to their preference then we can start next phase for these two topics, which is voting/announcement then move on to topic 2. I'm gonna wait til we decide on procedure first so it all runs smooth smooth.
I'm planning to be happy happy secretary for this and post guild mails reminding people each time we start a new topic for discussion, and announcing policy made for last topic so people can be updated and see we ARE making progress and also be shamed into their lack of participation.
Technically, RID is a Republic. Based on the idea that representatives are appointed (Officers) for specific interest groups and entrusted to put off their personal interests in order to best serve the needs of their followers (their divisions).
Democracy is a bad idea. The problem with that is that minority interests are too often drowned out by the overwhelming majority opinions and popularities, which then created suppressed peoples, lack of diversity in culture and ideas, and the development of tyranical empires created on a cult of personality.
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Aedean
Just a bit of a random thought/question. There's a lot of talk about divisions and subdivisions for PvP, PvE, Space, etc. and the different "types" of players... is the cart being put before the horse here? Is building a large infrastructure, without it being driven by the player-base wise? The reason I ask the question is simply because if people are (albeit somewhat artifically) catagorized into different areas, it might end up making people feel further apart, rather than more together and cohesive. The big question is, are the changes being bantered about being suggested because we're so large and unwieldly that we need more organization, or to attempt to draw in more members?
If the intent is to increase membership, different divisions are not the way to do it. Let's face it, if I'm a PvP'er, I'm going to join in on the Rebel slaying regardless of whether I'm in the RID Navy, RID Army or whatever. An artificial sub-category isn't going to entice me to PvP more, nor will it attract new PvP'ers to RID. What WILL encourage me into Restuss more often and draw in new recruits is active, team PvP. PvP'ers play to win... without the opportunity to do so, they will go elsewhere. Even though I am primarily a PvE'er, offer me a spot in a RID group where we stand a chance at victory, and I'll come every time. Get enough of us casual PvP'ers together doing this on a regular basis, and soon RID will be seen as having an active, and successful PvP unit, and more will want to be part of our fun. I will add a caveat to this saying that in my experience from over 10 years of MMORPGs and having been an avid PvP'er from DAoC, we must to be willing to change up our tactics a bit to be successful, otherwise it's just repeatedly killing rebels until we become outnumbered and leave frusterated.
The same can be said for the other "divisions" of RID. Although I don't think they're necessarily bad, again, they are somewhat artificial. PvE'ers play to explore and challenge themselves against the game.. more planned and adhoc PvE events will get us out more together, and make us more appealing to unguilded people, or even the more mature folks in some of the other guilds.
To sum up my tome of verbal diarrhea, changing the guilds structure or divisions will do nothing for membership. Only actively recruiting, and making the guild more "appealing" with activities will draw greater numbers. RID has a fantastic group of people now and everything necessary to become larger, if that's what the leadership desires. It's just a matter of focused energy.
If the intent is to increase membership, different divisions are not the way to do it. Let's face it, if I'm a PvP'er, I'm going to join in on the Rebel slaying regardless of whether I'm in the RID Navy, RID Army or whatever. An artificial sub-category isn't going to entice me to PvP more, nor will it attract new PvP'ers to RID. What WILL encourage me into Restuss more often and draw in new recruits is active, team PvP. PvP'ers play to win... without the opportunity to do so, they will go elsewhere. Even though I am primarily a PvE'er, offer me a spot in a RID group where we stand a chance at victory, and I'll come every time. Get enough of us casual PvP'ers together doing this on a regular basis, and soon RID will be seen as having an active, and successful PvP unit, and more will want to be part of our fun. I will add a caveat to this saying that in my experience from over 10 years of MMORPGs and having been an avid PvP'er from DAoC, we must to be willing to change up our tactics a bit to be successful, otherwise it's just repeatedly killing rebels until we become outnumbered and leave frusterated.
The same can be said for the other "divisions" of RID. Although I don't think they're necessarily bad, again, they are somewhat artificial. PvE'ers play to explore and challenge themselves against the game.. more planned and adhoc PvE events will get us out more together, and make us more appealing to unguilded people, or even the more mature folks in some of the other guilds.
To sum up my tome of verbal diarrhea, changing the guilds structure or divisions will do nothing for membership. Only actively recruiting, and making the guild more "appealing" with activities will draw greater numbers. RID has a fantastic group of people now and everything necessary to become larger, if that's what the leadership desires. It's just a matter of focused energy.
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Saurat Seerdon
- Lieutenant Colonel
- Posts:525
- Joined:Tue Apr 15, 2008 6:58 pm
- Location:Kaas City
- Contact:
I do have one kind of big complaint about the guild. I have nothing against anyone in the guild, it's just something i happened to notice with the guild as a whole within my few days i've been in it.
It seems as if the majority of the stuff the guild does is non gcw pve, it seems to me that there is no particular goal set out for the guild as a whole. (having divisions is a great start, IMO, but we need to have a clear defininition of exactly what each one does and how it guild members in one division can benefit guild members in another division and vice versa) When I joined RID, I expected ongoing GCW type "events", that is why most of my suggestions have been related to GCW PVP. Right now, IMHO, the guild just does not seem very 'imperial' to me. (as in being active in the GCW)
I believe each division should be given a specific goal and mission, right now my personal mission is to get all the items that i can, and to help fellow guild members do the same, to make us more competent Imperial Soldiers and team members on the battlefield.
Just remember, the next time you're in restuss when you see that rebel player with 3-4 buff rows, that with just a little help, you could very well do the same.
(Once i have all my items, i plan on patrolling the starports and pvp zones, 'unbuffed' aside from ent and medic buffs, and having a macro to set off all my buffs at once and show the rebel terrorists the wrath of the empire. *evil grin* )
some more ideas
Army Division:
Wears Imperial Faction Armor, participates actively in GCW (base raids, restuss, corvette instance, killing off rebel npcs, taking part in static base control. may or may not be subdivided into PVE/PVP
I believe that the primary goal of the army should be obtaining planetary control of the planets, regardless of planetary control actually doing anything...but this is an RPG, that shouldn't matter and we should be Role Playing as Imperial soldiers.
Maybe move our non gcw participants into the
Commercial Division, and give it 2 subdivisions like subdivision A: Traders, b: Mercenaries
Subdivison A Supplies guild as a whole with Armor, Weapons, Droids, Food, Drinks, Swoops, Powerups, Pets, Camps, Subdivision B provides assistance in instances, hunting, collecting, and looting. Not required to wear imperial armor.
Just to let you guys know, i'm planning on sticking in this guild forever, regardless of what happens, so don't worry about me leaving.
It seems as if the majority of the stuff the guild does is non gcw pve, it seems to me that there is no particular goal set out for the guild as a whole. (having divisions is a great start, IMO, but we need to have a clear defininition of exactly what each one does and how it guild members in one division can benefit guild members in another division and vice versa) When I joined RID, I expected ongoing GCW type "events", that is why most of my suggestions have been related to GCW PVP. Right now, IMHO, the guild just does not seem very 'imperial' to me. (as in being active in the GCW)
I believe each division should be given a specific goal and mission, right now my personal mission is to get all the items that i can, and to help fellow guild members do the same, to make us more competent Imperial Soldiers and team members on the battlefield.
Just remember, the next time you're in restuss when you see that rebel player with 3-4 buff rows, that with just a little help, you could very well do the same.
(Once i have all my items, i plan on patrolling the starports and pvp zones, 'unbuffed' aside from ent and medic buffs, and having a macro to set off all my buffs at once and show the rebel terrorists the wrath of the empire. *evil grin* )
some more ideas
Army Division:
Wears Imperial Faction Armor, participates actively in GCW (base raids, restuss, corvette instance, killing off rebel npcs, taking part in static base control. may or may not be subdivided into PVE/PVP
I believe that the primary goal of the army should be obtaining planetary control of the planets, regardless of planetary control actually doing anything...but this is an RPG, that shouldn't matter and we should be Role Playing as Imperial soldiers.
Maybe move our non gcw participants into the
Commercial Division, and give it 2 subdivisions like subdivision A: Traders, b: Mercenaries
Subdivison A Supplies guild as a whole with Armor, Weapons, Droids, Food, Drinks, Swoops, Powerups, Pets, Camps, Subdivision B provides assistance in instances, hunting, collecting, and looting. Not required to wear imperial armor.
Just to let you guys know, i'm planning on sticking in this guild forever, regardless of what happens, so don't worry about me leaving.
Last edited by Saurat Seerdon on Sat Apr 19, 2008 4:31 pm, edited 2 times in total.
Apathy is Death.
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Barney
Aedean wrote:... is the cart being put before the horse here?
Yes, actually. As I said earlier, we don't have a player base and MOST ESPECIALLY don't have the needed leaders available at this time to even maintain our current divisions much less create any more.
Aedean wrote: if people are (albeit somewhat artifically) catagorized into different areas, it might end up making people feel further apart, rather than more together and cohesive.
Very good point and I agree with that, as I think do Kurke and Apium in their expressed opinions that we don't need to divide our guild up any further than it already is. All my rambling about game personalities had a lot more to do with addressing past drama concerns revolving around conflicts which involved guild members who were drastically different play styles and at the far future when guild membership becomes large enough to support a separate pvp division more than our present situation which, I agree with Lexx, Apium, Kurke, and you on, requires a lot more cleaning out of the dead weight (inactive members or disruptive members) and then taking what we have left and pulling it much tighter together.
Aedean wrote: The big question is, are the changes being bantered about being suggested because we're so large and unwieldly that we need more organization, or to attempt to draw in more members?
They are actually being proposed because of growing dissent and unhappiness from members and leadership over A)Lack of strong / active leadership and B) Lack of guild activity/support in all game areas (pvp and pve, even crafting and space)
Secondly, and a huge consideration here, is that Lexx is looking at very limited game play time starting in September of this year when he attends college. We can't depend any more on a "cult of personality" leadership style in the guild where everything tends to revolve around one specific person who seems to keep the guild together in membership, recruitment, drama abatement, disciplinary actions, event scheduling or leadership. He's going to have to rely a LOT on the Officers to run the guild like w well-oiled machine when he starts College in September, which is why so many of us are taking such a hard core serious and fully detailed view at everything going on right now and how we do things.
Aedean wrote:If the intent is to increase membership,
Actually, yes and no. Right now I think we're too disorganized to offer much to new members. I think our main intent is to re-structure our core existing structure with better stronger definitions of our expectations from our division leaders in order to provide:
Aedean wrote: Get enough of us casual PvP'ers together doing this on a regular basis, and soon RID will be seen as having an active, and successful PvP unit, and more will want to be part of our fun.....
The same can be said for the other "divisions" of RID.
.. more planned and adhoc PvE events will get us out more together, and make us more appealing to unguilded people, or even the more mature folks in some of the other guilds. ....
and making the guild more "appealing" with activities will draw greater numbers.
THIS IS MY EXACT PRIMARY GOAL.
I think the greatest disappointment members experience in RID (now that we've cleaned out the drama, which used to be #1) is "lack of something to do/groups to be in". I think our intent here though, is instead of patching issues in the guild with band-aids over and over again, we're sorta starting from scrap from the top down, and looking over EVERY facet of our guild's organization and tactics in order to improve what we have. I am pretty sure, once we can sit in an interview with a new member and not stall for time and go ahhhh hmmmm when they ask us what specifically each Division in the guild does for us (*poke*poke) then I expect THEN we will be focusing on membership recruitment.
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Lexx Yovel
- RID Leader/Mayor
- Posts:5390
- Joined:Fri May 14, 2004 10:26 am
- Location:Fort Oasis, Tatooine
I do want to become more GCW oriented. I have a goal set where I want all Rebel bases on Tatooine to be destroyed and replaced with Imperial bases that are put in specific cities.
The problem is incentive. No one seems to have much care for planetary control, which is a shame. It mostly only affects recruiter item prices, and NPC control of some obscure, non-visited cities.
The amount of control over planets would be almost completely for self-satisfaction, which isn't a bad thing of course. It just means that the Rebels may not care enough to strike back so to speak.
I do think we need a set slicers team, to help take out bases whenever they are vulnerable. I would like to see a shift being made from artificial-base busts to actual base busts where we destroy legitimately placed bases. It wont yield as many GCW points, but should be enough. Also, the PvP kill collections now help with GCW as well.
I prefer wearing faction armor, because it's simply more Imperial looking. You wont see me in many other armo set-ups besides my Imperial SpecOps suit. The problem is the Devs dont seem to care for having a realistic Star Wars experience, and fail to add incentives for PvP'ers to wear Imperial armor, when a player can be more easily defeated by an individual wearing a modded RIS suit. It's a shame, of course.
Patrols are interesting, but another issue with that is you rarely see SF Rebels outside of Restuss. Pre-NGE there would be the constant Anchorhead vs Bestine battles, and spontaneous PvP battles in random cities. Its the fault of the community though, I think, which in their collective thinking, believe Restuss is the only source of PvP.
It is possible; however, that if we do get patrols nailed down, a public announcment would provoke then into taking action against us, sparking more PvP.
It may require an immense, if not unrealistic, amount of patrols *and* dedication though. I do think it should be pursued, but the first step is to break individuals carefully into divisions, and groom them all individuals. A hair-splitting task, which must be done.
The problem is incentive. No one seems to have much care for planetary control, which is a shame. It mostly only affects recruiter item prices, and NPC control of some obscure, non-visited cities.
The amount of control over planets would be almost completely for self-satisfaction, which isn't a bad thing of course. It just means that the Rebels may not care enough to strike back so to speak.
I do think we need a set slicers team, to help take out bases whenever they are vulnerable. I would like to see a shift being made from artificial-base busts to actual base busts where we destroy legitimately placed bases. It wont yield as many GCW points, but should be enough. Also, the PvP kill collections now help with GCW as well.
I prefer wearing faction armor, because it's simply more Imperial looking. You wont see me in many other armo set-ups besides my Imperial SpecOps suit. The problem is the Devs dont seem to care for having a realistic Star Wars experience, and fail to add incentives for PvP'ers to wear Imperial armor, when a player can be more easily defeated by an individual wearing a modded RIS suit. It's a shame, of course.
Patrols are interesting, but another issue with that is you rarely see SF Rebels outside of Restuss. Pre-NGE there would be the constant Anchorhead vs Bestine battles, and spontaneous PvP battles in random cities. Its the fault of the community though, I think, which in their collective thinking, believe Restuss is the only source of PvP.
It is possible; however, that if we do get patrols nailed down, a public announcment would provoke then into taking action against us, sparking more PvP.
It may require an immense, if not unrealistic, amount of patrols *and* dedication though. I do think it should be pursued, but the first step is to break individuals carefully into divisions, and groom them all individuals. A hair-splitting task, which must be done.
Last edited by Lexx Yovel on Sat Apr 19, 2008 4:32 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Barney
Kioet wrote:I do have one kind of big complaint about the guild.......
It seems as if the majority of the stuff the guild does is non gcw pve, it seems to me that there is no particular goal set out for the guild as a whole. When I joined RID, I expected ongoing GCW type "events", that is why most of my suggestions have been related to GCW PVP. Right now, IMHO, the guild just does not seem very 'imperial' to me.
Thank you so much for sharing that opinion with us Kioet'.
When we first began this discussion about the Army in the Officer's forums, Xoseh pointed out that we were seriously lacking in GCW/PvP organization or activities.
After spending a bit of time analyzing it, I think part of the problem is a simple lack of experience and enthusiasm for GCW/PvP related stuff from people who haven't had good times trying it out yet. I think another part of the problem is we don't currently have a huge PvP-oriented leadership or program going on right now. To be honest, until about 2 months ago when I joined, I don't think we had a huge PVE leadership happening either.
Because of Xoseh's concern, and yours, we've placed the GCW/PvP elements of our Army at the top of the priority list, and are not even thinking much about our PVE needs right now except for me maintaining my 1-2 special group nights for questing runs per week while we work on strengthening our GCW/PvP needs FIRST!
That is what these threads are all about. We are going to REVITALIZE our guild, give us renewed energy and focus in our gameplay together, and rebuild RID to be stronger and more what we want it to be.
This is also why I am so incredibly thrilled to have you in RID right now, because I can see you are full of great imagination and also hard-core KNOWLEDGE about the GCW system and how it all works, and I know I'm going to be tapping your brain an awful lot as I struggle harder to understand the new System better (I stopped being involved in the CU, LONG ago! I feel terrible being so out of touch) so we can work on that extra hard right now in our Army.
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Lexx Yovel
- RID Leader/Mayor
- Posts:5390
- Joined:Fri May 14, 2004 10:26 am
- Location:Fort Oasis, Tatooine
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Saurat Seerdon
- Lieutenant Colonel
- Posts:525
- Joined:Tue Apr 15, 2008 6:58 pm
- Location:Kaas City
- Contact:
Barney wrote:
[color=green]Thank you so much for sharing that opinion with us Kioet'.
When we first began this discussion about the Army in the Officer's forums, Xoseh pointed out that we were seriously lacking in GCW/PvP organization or activities.
Your welcome. I figured it would be better to let my opinion known, since the guild is in the process of 'restructure', you'll find when i have a brainstorm, it's not just a storm, but more like a hurricane lol. (look up some of my posts in gcw forum on the sony swg forums, my name there is RogueFifteen)
Apathy is Death.