RID Divisions: Brainstorming Thread

Post by **Lexx Yovel** » Wed Apr 16, 2008 7:18 pm

After much discussion amongst the Commanders and Captains of RID, it is agreed that divisions need to be given a specific purpose within RID.

We all know that we have the Intel Team, Regal Army, Regal Navy, and Commercial Company, each led by a Commander and Captain. The Commercial Company has the crafters, the Navy has the Pilots, and the Army has the ground fighters. Intel's purpose has yet to be fully determined, but the purpose of this post is to hear suggestions.

Effective as soon as possible, all division members (except the Commanders and Captains), will be made Recruits. Once everything is nailed down, we will begin selectively recruiting for each division.

Apium · Post by **Apium** » Wed Apr 16, 2008 9:18 pm

By the way, we are currently in discussion concerning the Army. Try to keep your posts pertinent to the Army, so we aren't completely overwhelmed. We are kind of at a stand still right now because Amaroo has been gone for two days, so we really need some suggestions/ideas/comments/anything.

From the Army thread on the officers' board:

Ideas thrown out for consideration:
---Make RID all pvp guild
---Make subdivisions in Army for PVP/PVE clearly defined
---Move all PVE and Helper/info related members to Intel and keep Army all PvP
---Make a 5th Division for only PvP
---Make Army (or PvP subDiv) required that people be SF "on-call"
---Change loot to equip PvP players or other more deserving guild members first

Checklist

PvP
-Policy regarding an "on call" list or something similar
-How to go about planning PvP events
-PvP training
-PvP equipment
-Discuss RID's image as PvPers (is it good? bad? terrible? RID sucks? RIDs are bad sports? and if it is bad how can we improve it?)
-Policies regarding guild wars
-Discuss regular PvP RID events scheduling
-Getting GCW alternatively
-Base Busting

PvE
-Finalize a looting policy
-Discuss a format to be used for all official instance groups (I mean mails and announcements btw)
-PvE/instance training
-PvE equipment
-Plan for dealing with complaints
-Discuss regular PVE RID events scheduling
-Relationship with Commercial Division

Saurat Seerdon · Post by **Saurat Seerdon** » Thu Apr 17, 2008 2:18 am

Is anybody else tired of opening the war terminal and seeing the majority of the planets in the Galactic Empire being controlled by the rebel scum, or going to theed and finding rebels guarding the spaceport?

I've got an idea about how we can stop this uprising.
It will require the participants to be Special Forces.

Here it goes:

"Police" group's assigned to a specific planet's major cities starports each week as Special Forces. I suggest having at least 1 full sized group, 2 players per starport city on the planet. (for example: corellia has 2 on coronet, 2 on kor vella, 2 on tyrena, 2 on doaba gurfel. )

"Raider" group's primary goal is to eliminate rebel bases on the planet being 'assaulted' and to place SF imperial bases once there is room for them to help halt rebel progress on the planet.

"Exterminator" group's goal is to sweep through the npc cities, eliminating as many rebel npcs that show up, this will help add to the imperial planetary control points. also assists in eliminating rebel npcs at bases as well as filling in for police if police group is in need of additional support.

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a few notes:

Members in subdivision must be Special Forces and at their post at all times unless requested elsewhere through chain of command

Members in subdivision are supplied through another subdivision in the army (armor, powerups, food, weapons, attachments, droids)

Members must not participate in 'base clubbing' unless they are in the "raider" group and the base clubbing is taking place on the planet that they are currently assaulting

Big Idea:

(to make it simple i'll use army lingo
group=squad
police squad+raider squad+exterminator squad=platoon
several platoons=company)

If enough people are in the Planetary Assault Subdivision we could have a platoon of police, raiders, and exterminators on each planet, and we could rotate the platoons to different planets each week (or for a better, more roleplay 'feel', month?). for instance, we have a platoon1 on corellia and a platoon2 on naboo, at the end of the week (or month) platoon1 travels to naboo, and platoon 2 travels to naboo.

Also, members in a particular squad could request to be placed in another squad and be allowed to do so once per week. (member of the police squad requests permission to transfer to the raider squad)

Chain of Command:

Platoon Leader (subdivision's leader)
Squad Leader (group's leader)

should be some way to make a ranking system for each squad, so for instance, if the current squad leader is not available, the next one in rank takes control.

Just a badass idea right here (if it would work, which i just don't think it would cause probably not enough members)

4 Platoons per planet. 1 platoon for each section, north, south, east, and west.

1 platoon should consist of at least 21 members:

8 members per Police Squad
5 members per Raider Squad (bounty hunter, smuggler, medic, commando, officer)
8 members per Exterminator Squad

If we could get 4 platoons set up, that would be a great start. Perhaps we could coordinate with other Imperial guilds in this?

Alright here is an example of how it will start off (with just 1 platoon):

Naboo:

Upon enlisting in the Planetary Assault Subdivision, you have been drafted to deploy to the Army's Planetary Assault Subdivision Police Squad on Naboo. Intelligence reports that Keren's citizens are being harassed by members of the rebel alliance, you have been selected to help enforce imperial law in the area. Mission: Travel to Keren and meet the squad leader for this week's assignment.

Upon arriving at Keren, your squad leader sends you a list of way points, which you must patrol for the day. These way points act as your patrolling border. for instance, the waypoints surround the starport, so you must patrol within that area for the day.

Generally, the patrolling areas should be shuttleports, cantinas, starport, cloning center, bank/bazaar, hospital and each day you should be rotated to a different section of the city until you have covered each section. patrols should be done in 2 man teams. Report signs of any NPC rebel activity to your squad leader

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Upon enlisting in the Planetary Assault Subdivision, you have been drafted to deploy to the Army's Planetary Assault Subdivision Raider Squad on Naboo. Intelligence has uncovered rebel bases east of Kaadara. Mission: Meet with squad leader on Kaadara to prepare for assault on the rebel bases.

Once you arrive at Kaadara and meet up with the base raiding squad, you are given the waypoints and assault the bases. Once they are taken down, travel to the nearest Imperial aligned player city, if any members of the guild are mayor or militia of a city in the area, use that as a place to drop a special forces base. I'm not sure exactly the details of how this will work, but it would have to kind of be tied in with the 'intelligence' division somehow. Also, members in the raiding squad should also be given assignment to defend SF bases when they go vulnerable. They also report rebel boss npcs (which spawn in player bases) through holomail/tells to chain of command.

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Upon enlisting in the Planetary Assault Subdivision, you have been drafted to deploy to the Army's Planetary Assault Subdivision Exterminator Squad on Naboo. Intelligence has confirmed unchecked rebel activity on the planet. Mission: Wipe them out. All of them.

You first arrive at Theed, being that that is the capital. upon arriving at the starport, you are contacted by your squad leader, you could then be given a number of assignments, from eliminating dozens of rebel npcs on Keren, assisting in eliminating npc defense in a base raid, and basically being like a 'reserve' unit. so for instance, a base raid is missing 1 member, the whole squad must go to that base. police squad down a man? the whole squad goes to assist. if raider and police squad are filled, the exterminator squads mission is to kill as many rebel npcs as possible.
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suggestions

I also think that Intelligence Division should definitely be involved somehow. at least with providing locations of bases, rebel players (cl90) locations, and stuff to do with the particular planet being 'assaulted'

possibly make a 'combat support' division/subdivision. this would place entertainers in cantinas of cities being patrolled and medics in hospitals to provide medic buffs. also have something to get more imperials outside of the guild involved in cracking down on the rebels, and going SF. the ents and medics will only buff members of the imperial faction.

Maybe make this a '5th' division? considering its members must be SF at all times.

What i would like to see is RID members "controlling" cities on each planet, not just for a day or two, but it should be a constant thing, going to a city should be like going to mos eisley cantina, there are usually the same entertainers there and it doesn't seem like they ever leave! There should always be at least 2 SF members of RID per city.

Faction armor should definitely be a requirement, maybe have something so we are able to distinguish which members of RID are part of the division/subdivison, a full suit of faction armor except for the right bicep, which will be colored red.

Aedean · Post by **Aedean** » Thu Apr 17, 2008 10:52 am

Having been in and run large guilds in the past, I think the biggest challenge that will be faced is getting a large enough core group of PVP'ers in RID to support any sort of regular PVP activities. For this, active recruitment will be required.

In my experience, mandating any sort of activity, whether it be regular PvP or being considered "on call" for PvP activities will not work with the bulk of players. Most of us are here on our schedules to enjoy the game as we like it, and not feel obligated to do something that we may not be in the mood to do.

Kurke Aumea · Post by **Kurke Aumea** » Thu Apr 17, 2008 12:23 pm

This thread is for RID's only. I know there are a few people around here that we give exceptions to in regards to the forums (usually former members or allies), however unless you have something meaningful to contribute to the thread, please stay out.

I'll kind of toss the same suggestion in here that I made in the Officers' forum. In regards to our Army division, I think we need to specify who is PvP and who is PvE. There are a lot more PvE players than PvP players. One of my suggestions was to take the Army division and give it two subdivisions: one PvE and one PvP. Anyone who wants to be a part of the Army division would likely go into the PvE group unless they frequent the PvP side of life, in which case they would be in the PvP group. We could also have different individuals in charge of each group. This would allow the two people in charge of the subdivisions to focus more on either PvP or PvE and not have to worry about the other. Whoever is in charge of PvP can work to organize PvP events and whoever is in charge of PvE can work to organize PvE groups. This, I think, could help encourage development in our members in those respective areas. The Army division would be the only one like this since there's no need to implement anything similar to our other divisions.

Mandating PvP or mandating attendance will only hurt us in the end. I play this game for fun and real life can really limit my playing times. I think we need something that can accomodate the hardcore players in the guild and those who jsut play to play when they can.

Saurat Seerdon · Post by **Saurat Seerdon** » Thu Apr 17, 2008 2:53 pm

i'm a new member of r.i.d. what i wrote was something for people that are really into pvp (they have their general rank rewards, all the best equipment from the instances and quests, top of the line armor, buffed to the max) to get involved in, it wouldn't be something that a casual player would want to do, but more for someone that wants to roleplay while being flagged SF.

maybe my idea would be better for separate division, label it the 'Planetary Control Division' or somethin.

ok here are some ideas for the army's pvp subdivision

Attacks and Defends static pvp zones on Talus, Naboo, and Corellia, group sticks together, mainly hangs out at restuss for pvp, goal should be to get as many rebel kills as possible for the guild.

pve subdivision

Attacks PVE bases, groups for instances, heroics, helps people that need it on quests. helps supply equipment from the instance to those who really need it. (PVP people)

I do believe everyone should wear a set of faction armor while combatant or special forces.

Apium · Post by **Apium** » Thu Apr 17, 2008 4:10 pm

Its pretty clear at this point that we are going to need a PvP and a PvE subdivision. The question now is how they are related to each other. When I brought up the idea originally, I was thinking more of two equal subdivisions, but now I'm thinking that it would be better if it followed this little analogy:

PvP subdivision is to the PvE subdivision as the real life special forces are to the regular army.

This means that those who are willing to PvP when needed would join the PvP subdivision, but would still receive all the perks of the PvE subdivision. We can't force members to do anything regarding PvP unless they willingly submit to it. I enjoy PvP and will probably agree to join the PvP division and stand on call, but while I am willing to respond, I won't always respond and I don't expect people to respond every time. (wow major run on) Its just unrealistic. I hope to encourage people to PvP, but it has to be on their terms, that is the only way everyone will enjoy it and continue to participate.

Saurat Seerdon · Post by **Saurat Seerdon** » Thu Apr 17, 2008 5:11 pm

sounds good. I love PVP, even when outnumbered, so long as i am not alone.

Jonem · Post by **Jonem** » Thu Apr 17, 2008 5:21 pm

Im like..totally against having to be made or being told "we would love it if you could" to wear factional armor while PvPing :roll:

Kurke Aumea · Post by **Kurke Aumea** » Thu Apr 17, 2008 6:17 pm

Apium wrote:Its pretty clear at this point that we are going to need a PvP and a PvE subdivision. The question now is how they are related to each other. When I brought up the idea originally, I was thinking more of two equal subdivisions, but now I'm thinking that it would be better if it followed this little analogy:

PvP subdivision is to the PvE subdivision as the real life special forces are to the regular army.

This means that those who are willing to PvP when needed would join the PvP subdivision, but would still receive all the perks of the PvE subdivision. We can't force members to do anything regarding PvP unless they willingly submit to it. I enjoy PvP and will probably agree to join the PvP division and stand on call, but while I am willing to respond, I won't always respond and I don't expect people to respond every time. (wow major run on) Its just unrealistic. I hope to encourage people to PvP, but it has to be on their terms, that is the only way everyone will enjoy it and continue to participate.

Indeed, I think that is how I'm envisioning subdivisions for the army. Filling up the PvE will be no problem as I think anyone with a combat toon will be more than willing to be a part of that. Of course, not everyone is a PvP fan and I think your analogy would serve as a good guide for what needs done.

Apium · Post by **Apium** » Thu Apr 17, 2008 7:37 pm

Jonem wrote:Im like..totally against having to be made or being told "we would love it if you could" to wear factional armor while PvPing

Its already been agreed upon that there won't be any changes or new systems put in place that would force someone to do something they don't want to do, no exceptions.

Besides I just bought my new suit of Chitin armour and I'm getting it modded out this week.

Barney · Post by **Barney** » Fri Apr 18, 2008 12:59 pm

I strongly believe that making subdivisions for PvP and PvE is not the best way to go, and that we need to actually break down separate Divisions for both styles of gameplay.

Keeping Pvp as a subdivision of the Army makes sense only in that there are so few people to fill in those ranks now who would be willing to be tagged as the "pvp on-call" squad, I can think of only about 5-6 guild members who would be willing to join a PvP specific division. However, I think it's like that movie said "If you build it, they will come". If we make a special Division for PVP-oriented stuff, Something like the Regal Special Forces, I bet you that it will help make our existing PvP guild members a lot happier to have their own specialized Division, and it will be an awesome draw in recruitment as well to show that we're dedicated enough to the needs of our PvP players to make an entire guild Division just for them.

In addition, the main complaint against the Army is "you're here to fight, you have to pvp". Well, if we just make pvpers a subdivision in the Army, we're still not addressing the complaint that "army people won't come when I call them for pvp". PVPers will STILL see army PVEers logged in, and even if they're not flagged specifically for the PvP subdivision, they'll still get lumped together.

There is also a very clearly defined line of maturity and gameplay style between the dedicated pvpers and pvers. I think some of the friction we see in the guild comes from that diverse outlook on game play. It's actually my opinion that the greatest arguments over loot drops comes between pvpers and pve'ers. Pvpers think they need stuff more urgently than the other guys because to them in pvp it's literally a matter of fail or succeed to have the best stuff, while pver's resent being treated as if their gameplay is less important than a pvpers and that they don't need that super gun as much as the pvper does. I think it might be a good idea to funnel the two different types of players a bit more apart than they are right now, I'd sure like to see if it helps cut back on so much of the arguments and complaints I get about people not getting along.

I'd prefer that we make a more clearly defined branch that does pvp with their own official designation or division, with their own leaders who are dedicated to spending the time and effort toward researching and arranging pvp events for those people who want to specialize in that game play. It takes a lot of work and effort and knowledge to understand how the GCW system works across the planets, Kioet's post breaking down a lot of the activities which could be done in PvP helps to highlight that. I'm so impressed with his knowledge and ideas on the subject, as well as his maturity level that I'd actually recommend him for one of the officer positions if we did agree to make a separate RSF Division.

So, no, I really don't think subdivisions will work. I really think you need separate commander/captain and division for PVP. Either make one a Division for PvEers to go to, or blend them into another division, or even just make a small Regal Special Forces Division with just one leader to start, for the pvpers to get the ball rolling, but I don't think we should lump the two groups together anymore, even as subdivisions.

Jonem · Post by **Jonem** » Fri Apr 18, 2008 4:04 pm

Barney wrote:There is also a very clearly defined line of maturity and gameplay style between the dedicated pvpers and pvers.

What is that supposed to mean?

Barney · Post by **Barney** » Fri Apr 18, 2008 5:08 pm

Jonem wrote:
Barney wrote:There is also a very clearly defined line of maturity and gameplay style between the dedicated pvpers and pvers.

What is that supposed to mean?

I'm basing my observations on the Bartle Game Personality Test, as well as over 20 years of gameplay experience watching people try to hate on each other over different play styles. This was a little personality profiling system set up which basically identified 4 dominant gaming personalities in MUD's (old text based computer game play) and still holds true today for MMORPG's. Basically, they split people out based on how they like to play the game, as

Socializers--(RPers) People who play mostly to be around and meet/talk to other people

Achievers--(Traders) People who actually like and enjoy working in a game to collect items and credits

Explorers-- (PVE) People who prefer wandering freely through the game environment world and interacting with the game system itself and mostly focus on gaming content and quest completion.

Killers-- (PVE) People who play primarily for the thrills to shoot, kill, laugh, mock, and test their own gaming skills/equipment against other players.

You can go here to take the personality test yourself:
http://www.guildcafe.com/bartle.php

In General, Explorers and Killers are like mortal enemies in most video games. Their play styles, game priorities, and communication styles are drastically different from each other. Generally speaking, game players tend to be divided in their side/ our side roles, where there are groups of Killer types who will tend to spend most their times together and groups of Explorer types will keep to themselves, and when you try working with both sides at once they tend to argue and fight a lot. You can see how combining "hurry hurry doodz ur all 2 slo wtf losers!" with "hold on, I want to check the map guide and see what strategy works best for the next boss, you don't have to be so rude and disrespectful" can totally destroy group mechanics in the game and start lots of stupid arguing and poor teamwork mechanics.

On a maturity level, you will find more Killers to be young, ages 8-26, very past-paced high strung players. Explorers, by statistics, are about 27-40 years of age, normally a lot more slow moving and methodical in their game play.

Most guilds I've observed and interacted with in over 5 different MMO's and about 4 years of gaming, tend to trend to like, half. They will be traders/explorers or killers/socializers (weird mix but a really popular one). Guilds like IMPHL and FRDM are completely PvP oriented and tend toward almost all Killer types with people filling in as roles here and there as ents and traders just to supply the Killer needs. Other guilds like FREAK are almost all Traders with a smallest necessary Explorer group just to be able to supply those traders with things they need. HERO is amazingly enough, a huge portion Explorer/Killer very unusual for a guild to pull that off. I've been actually trying to pester Ombrose for a lot of their secrets how they get along and run so smoothly. A huge amount of their success is simply based on good high active numbers of players, instead of a lost of ghost/alts feelings, and also very tightly organized time schedules and activities. Those people are ALWAYS busy. SoF is almost all Explorer/Social, and use the same tactics as HERO. Most guilds also tend to stick with a certain age range, like IMPHL is mostly 14-23, SHC is mostly 30-40, HERO is mostly 19-27.

RID right now I would say is actually: Just off the top of my head estimate

Social- 5%
Achiever- 20%
Explorer-65%
Killer-10%

So, we're actually very special in that we group a lot more diverse age groups and player-types. RID is special. We range from 12 (I think) up to 39. RID is also special in that we do have a fairly good spread of players in all 4 player-type personalities. I think if there were leaders creating events and story coordination a lot more of our existing guild members might enjoy the Social aspect.

We seem to have actually managed just by instinct, to break our guild down in divisions that are well suited for those personalities, through our Divisions. Space is a special breed and not really a personality type difference but so very unique in our game that I think a division for it is proper and mandatory.

So knowing those breakdowns, and knowing how our guild is so incredibly excitingly unique and special to include a good force of all player personalities and age ranges, that's why I recommend a 5th outright Regal Special Forces Division. I think that we should re-name the Army something less war-like and more pve-ish, let the pve people stay there, and have our PVP division too. I think that way we would appeal to almost all player types in the game (well we still don't have much for RPers and really, I still think Intel should be working on that). So this is what I would recommend:

Regal Navy Division (unique)
Regal Commercial Division (Achievers)
Regal Guard Division (PVEers) (Like National Guard, they're here for sudden flurries of pvp and can help at times but mostly do home base stuff?)
Regal Special Forces Division (PvP elites)
Regal Intelligence Division(still don't have concrete duties)

I bet you, when we get our divisions sorted out, and start having divisional specific calendars of events and activities, our recruitment would skyrocket and our current player-base would be a lot happier than they are now while we're all kinda lost in the dark.

Kurke Aumea · Post by **Kurke Aumea** » Fri Apr 18, 2008 5:14 pm

Barney wrote:So, no, I really don't think subdivisions will work. I really think you need separate commander/captain and division for PVP. Either make one a Division for PvEers to go to, or blend them into another division, or even just make a small Regal Special Forces Division with just one leader to start, for the pvpers to get the ball rolling, but I don't think we should lump the two groups together anymore, even as subdivisions.

I disagree with this and here is why: you said you can only think of 5 or so people who would even join a PvP group, so with so few people why have a division? I can agree that if there is enough interest to warrant a PvP division being spun off from the Army, then so be it. However, I think for the moment that having PvP and PvE subdivisions under the Army division is the best solution. So, you'd have the Army commander and then the subdivisions that have a captain assigned to each.

Part of my reasoning for this goes back to a very old command structure in RID. There were so many little groups and each group had like two or three members in charge that at the end of the day, all of the active guild members had some sort of leadership role and there were no normal guild members.

So, if there are only 4 or 5 people who join a PvP division and one is a commander and one is a captain, then you're left with two non-leadership roles... If there were a sweet spot, I would say it would be around having 10 or so people in a PvP subdivision. That is when I think it would warrant being spun off into its own division. And that is on the premise that all 10 peeps are active.

R.I.D BASE OF OPERATIONS

RID Divisions: Brainstorming Thread

Planetary Assault Division/Subdivision?