New Recruits - RP the future of RID?

[Arev]

I was sent a very lengthy PM on SSG by 'Rhiana of Navy. She expressed interest of joining RID and help restart our piloting operation (or more accurately, I explained that's what she'd be doing if she joined ). So, she's going to applying in about two weeks and will bring one other, if not a couple more, with her.

This an example of not only how roleplayers can benefit RID, but also are roleplay is potentially the future of RID. I'm not saying, RID will *become* an RP PA, I'm saying that RPers may make up a significant plurality or maybe even a majority of the active membership. It's something we should be aware of and acknowledge. We can't deny that for years, RID has never been able to retain roleplayers. That's a fact. Now, we can.

The long and short of it is that we need to adjust ourselves according and, in some ways, operate like an RP PA. For instance, we need to standardize our roleplay with the creation of a Guild Master position, someone to oversee our roleplay, make sure it 'glues' together. We'll also need to tighten up on bad roleplay. Basically, how do we discipline unruly members and trash-talkers? The same policy would apply to those that violate the rules of RP etiquette.

I'd like to clarify that I don't want to create a uniformed, rigid structure for RID RP, in particular that which is focused around Imperial military RP. I've been a long supporter of a diverse RID Roleplay, in which as long as the tenets of RID, Star Wars canon, and RP etiquette are adhered to, players could roleplay, for the most part, whatever they want. This is a big one for me, because I'm currently in dialogue with a small Death Watch RP PA about a possible merger.

So, what are your thoughts on the issue?

[Xoseh]

I don't mind the majority of RID turning into a RP Guild, however, the members will need to understand that we're not always going to be Roleplaying.

PvE, PvP, and Space content are still going to be a large part of RID, regardless if the majority of RID RP's. Don't get me wrong, I have no problem with RPing or RP'er's, but some seem to just completely forget about the other aspects of SWG, and I don't want that to happen here.

[Arev]

You're stereotyping, Xoseh. That would be the same as me saying anyone with more than 5,000 PvP kills is a l33t kiddie, or anyone playing a Jedi or Commando is looking to play Galaxies in 'Easy Mode'.

Of course, RID roleplayers understand that there's more to SWG/RID than RP. Part of the reason why RID RP is growing is because of our interaction and willingness to participate and try new things. It's easier to participate and *see* what's going on instead of making blanket statements.

[Xoseh]

I'm not stereotyping at all, Arev. Everytime I log in, I see some type of "RP Event" in my mail from you. (Rarely do I see any other type of event.)

Sometimes you even go as far as asking Lexx to cancel other guild plans that are happening on the same date around the same time as the RP Event.

So, I'm not stereotyping. I'm telling you how it is and what I don't want to see happening. Me saying I don't want RP'er's to remember that RID isn't only about RP'ing is no way the same as going off about how many PvP kills someone has, I could care less about that because no matter how many PvP kills someone has, it's not going to help anyone in RID get their +35's, their heroic jewlery, etc. If the focus of RID starts to become more into RP'ing, then the process of helping members aquire those things is going to become more hindered then it already is.

While you did say you didn't want to turn RID into an avid RP'ing guild, 90% of this post is about how Roleplayers will help RID more then anyone else (PvP'er's, PvE'er's, etc.) This is untrue. Don't get me wrong, I'm sure the group of Roleplayers on Starsider is a nicer group in the community then the others, but are they well enough geared to be called into heroics on the spot? Are they willing to put RID before RP and stop Roleplaying in order to help Members through an instance or do a quest if no one else is avaliable? Will they talk to other members through guild chat? (I know that sounds stupid, but I have seen quite a few people in other guilds that will only talk through Spatial, and nothing else.)

(And I am not playing Galaxies as a Jedi to play in easy mode, the thought of cutting someone with a Lightsaber just sits right in my head. )

Sorry man, this is just my opinion. It is in no way a stereotype.

[Lexx Yovel]

Okay, well I can add some more things later, but I'll make a few points.

I've got no problem with RID becoming more and more involved with certain RP activities. I do agree that RP should not become the one and only focus point of RID, because there are many members who need help with PvP and other related PvE activities. So shoving a certain gameplay style in our members' face is something we should avoid, but I don't think anyone was proposing we should do that anyways.

I don't entirely think the RP events interfere with the other scheduled events neccesarily. I mean yes the DWB got cancelled, but that was more because the member who needed the DWB could not log on. The RP event gave more of an excuse to postpone it until further notice.

Anyways, while we definitely should welcome more RP members, I think we just need to let them know it's not our primary focus, and still work on recruiting other valuable members as well.

[Xoseh]

I didn't know the member who needed the DWB could not log on during the scheduled time, so I apologize for pointing that out.

I just don't want RID to recruit a bunch of Roleplayers and then have the other aspects of RID become less important. Everything needs equal distribution of event time.

[Arev]

I'm not stereotyping at all, Arev. Everytime I log in, I see some type of "RP Event" in my mail from you. (Rarely do I see any other type of event.)

Wrong. I've organized plenty of other events. Of course, look who's talking, who many events have you organized recently?

Sometimes you even go as far as asking Lexx to cancel other guild plans that are happening on the same date around the same time as the RP Event.

Wrong again. Thursday's event was scheduled in advance before Lexx's. Re-read your mail again.

If the focus of RID starts to become more into RP'ing, then the process of helping members aquire those things is going to become more hindered then it already is.

Here we go again with blanket statements.

I've found RID RPers to be more helpful than most of the recruits we get here. Think about it. Who participates in city invasions? RPers. Who helps to flip zones? RPers. My last EK run that I organized, was made up nearly entirely of RPers. Do I need to continue?

Bottom line, if you're going make stereotypes, get your facts straight. Frankly, RPers are more loyal to RID, than most non-RPers are.

Are they willing to put RID before RP and stop Roleplaying in order to help Members through an instance or do a quest if no one else is avaliable? Will they talk to other members through guild chat? (I know that sounds stupid, but I have seen quite a few people in other guilds that will only talk through Spatial, and nothing else.)

You're acting like RPing must be a secondary pasttime for RID members. Form a Heroic group some time and tell people (regardless of play style), they must stop what they're doing to help. Or shout out in guild chat that some Rebel SFs are flipping Tatooine. Need I go on? I think you know where I'm going wit this.

All of our RPers frequent guild chat, moreso than non-RPers.

(And I am not playing Galaxies as a Jedi to play in easy mode, the thought of cutting someone with a Lightsaber just sits right in my head. )

You're playing the wrong Star Wars game to be a Jedi. Want to be a Jedi, play Force Unleashed. XD

Sorry man, this is just my opinion. It is in no way a stereotype.

I understand that, but regardless of what you think, you are making blanket statement with outrageous 'facts' thrown in (i.e. 90%).

Xoseh, you must remember that if RID is a 'one thing' PA, it's a casual PA. We don't require forced participation in any event - which has led to plenty of frustrations in the past with members (most recently being Urkam), but it has nothing to do with roleplaying. The problems you highlight have been RID's banes since before I joined. In other words, you're attempting to find a scapegoat.

Regardless of what where you're going with this, it's slightly off-topic. This thread is more about adjusting ourselves as a PA to accommodate the growing numbers of RPers that are joining.

[Arev]

Anyways, while we definitely should welcome more RP members, I think we just need to let them know it's not our primary focus, and still work on recruiting other valuable members as well.

The same is true with PvPers, PvE'ers, etc. Why discriminate?

If anything, we should clarify that no play style is discouraged in RID. I've already seen a couple snipes in guild chat about RPers.

[Xoseh]

I'm not getting into this with you here, if you want to talk about this PM me.

I don't want RID turning into an Avid Roleplaying guild is what my point was. If you have a problem with my opinion, fine. I'm not going to try to change your mind, just like I won't let you change mine.

[Arev]

I don't want RID turning into an Avid Roleplaying guild is what my point was.

Your opinion is duly noted, but to return to the OP:

The long and short of it is that we need to adjust ourselves according and, in some ways, operate like an RP PA. For instance, we need to standardize our roleplay with the creation of a Guild Master position, someone to oversee our roleplay, make sure it 'glues' together. We'll also need to tighten up on bad roleplay. Basically, how do we discipline unruly members and trash-talkers? The same policy would apply to those that violate the rules of RP etiquette.

[Lexx Yovel]

Okay, now that I had the time to read over this entire thread, I'll write out a formal response (finally)

Concerning the Guild Master position, I honestly just don't know. Are we expected to remove members, or turn down their applications just because they're bad at roleplay, or do not roleplay at all? I fully agree that trash-talkers and immature members have no place in our guild, but what about those who are fully mature, but have no interest in roleplaying?

I know roleplaying is a very integral part to your gameplay, as well as to the majority of current RID members, but I don't see it being the overall definition of what RID is as a guild, the same goes for PvP or space for that matter. I do fully agree that while RP should be a major part of what this guild is, we should not focus on it on such a great extent, that it ignores the things that other members need or want, such as PvP or other PvE activities.

I guess I'm mostly just confused at what you're proposing. If you'd like to standardize roleplay within RID, I see no significant problems with that -- so long as it applies to the guild's RP'ers only, and not neccesarily those who don't RP regularly. I think the only other problem is that some RP members may not like to be told how to RP, and they may take such standardization as a personal attack on how they choose to play the game.

You do hold a high position in RID though, so if you'd like to meet up with the roleplayers in RID, and discuss to them how roleplay should be conducted within the guild, then I see no problem with that. The only major problem, like I said, is that we should not focus our guild in such a drastically different direction, that RP becomes our primary focus, and we ignore quality applicants. If we do something so drastic is that, it will only result in a considerable drop in our member-base, who may not meld with the newer requirements.

[Arev]

Are we expected to remove members, or turn down their applications just because they're bad at roleplay, or do not roleplay at all? I fully agree that trash-talkers and immature members have no place in our guild, but what about those who are fully mature, but have no interest in roleplaying?

There in lies the problem. I never advocated denying non-roleplayers admission to RID, what I am, however, advocating for is that if people choose to roleplay, they must maintain certain criteria (i.e. adhere to Star Wars Canon, follow basic RP etiquette, etc). If someone chooses not to roleplay or only casually participate, this probably wouldn't even apply to them.

Here's the change I'm requesting: Removing members who insist on roleplaying, but do not agree to follow the criteria set forth. You're right, though, they might be very good players, but if they don't agree to play by 'our rules', they are insulting their fellow guildies and tarnishing the RID reputation.

I do fully agree that while RP should be a major part of what this guild is, we should not focus on it on such a great extent, that it ignores the things that other members need or want, such as PvP or other PvE activities.

I think Apauck said it best, "The reason why I like RID is because there is so much to do. When you only RP, it grows stale." Interestingly, this is a problem that is far too common in Imperial RP PAs, which is one of the reasons why RPers have wanted to join RID over the years. Carlus is a good example. He was a dedicated RPer that wanted a break from RP PAs, to join a PA that he could still RP in, but participate in other game activities.

I guess I'm mostly just confused at what you're proposing. If you'd like to standardize roleplay within RID, I see no significant problems with that -- so long as it applies to the guild's RP'ers only, and not necessarily those who don't RP regularly. I think the only other problem is that some RP members may not like to be told how to RP, and they may take such standardization as a personal attack on how they choose to play the game.

That's another issue is that you create a divide between the casuals and the hardcore. As I described to SixT, RID consists of three groups; the non-RPers, the casual RPers, and the dedicated RPers. The last group is the newest addition, the first two RID has had since its conception. I don't believe this is an issue at the moment. The RID RPers I've met (casual or hardcore) were willing to adjust themselves to 'play nicely' with everyone else.

Honestly, if they interpret the requests as a personal attack, they probably worth roleplaying with in the first place. I'm a lenient guy, but if someone comes to me saying, "Can I be some uber, super secret, liaison to the Emperor?" I'm going to say no, because he threatens RID's RP credibility by doing that and didn't agree to the criteria I mentioned earlier. In PvE or PvP, if a newbie doesn't listen he becomes the weak link to that group, right? The same is true here.

You do hold a high position in RID though, so if you'd like to meet up with the roleplayers in RID, and discuss to them how roleplay should be conducted within the guild, then I see no problem with that. The only major problem, like I said, is that we should not focus our guild in such a drastically different direction, that RP becomes our primary focus, and we ignore quality applicants. If we do something so drastic is that, it will only result in a considerable drop in our member-base, who may not meld with the newer requirements.

Personally, I'd prefer that you address the roleplayers directly. It would show that, even if you aren't a dedicated RPer yourself, you are still interested. SSG RID RP Private member forums can be used to address them. I'd recommend simply stating how you interpreted my requests, worries, criticisms and such.

I would never want RP to become RID's primary focus for several reasons. But, the important part is that for years RID RP has been 'squishy', now that RPers are attracted to RID for different reasons, it's time to put the dough in the oven.

[Lexx Yovel]

Okay, I see where your coming from, you make some good points. I see no harm in RP in RID becoming somewhat more standardized.

I'll make myself more visible on those forums (been a bit difficult to juggle forums) around, and raise some of the concerns that were mentioned.

[Ramd]

Just going to give my two cents:

I'd strongly recommend against allowing the guild to slip into being a full time RP PA. My reasoning:

1) Narrows the focus of activities
2) Appeals to less people = less recruits or potential recruits
3) Loss of GCW "usefulness"

To be clear, I have nothing against roleplaying. I just think that allowing it to overshadow other activities, namely PvP, could spell death for the guild. There was talk of starting another recruitment drive, which I would wholeheartedly be in favor of. However, if the guild narrows its focus to strictly or predominantly RP, we lose dozens of potential recruits who have more varied tastes. In a worse care scenario, it could also mean a net loss of members, as people who are not RP-inclined leave for other guilds that fit their interests. Finally, RID is currently growing. Last saturday we had upwards of 18 people on in the evening. With such a large player base, we have an enormous opportunity to do two things: 1) Increase our visibility and prestige [attracting more members as we do so], and, on a larger scale, 2) affecting the GCW for the entire server. With the arrival of AO (which I'll be posting more about in a bit), we have the ability to create a new alliance of Imperial guilds, and start taking the role of "dominant-faction" from the rebels. Currently, the galaxy oscillates between 54/46 and 52/48. That's unacceptable, especially when the Empire on SS has the man power to do much better. But I digress...

The other problem I have with "standardizing" or institutionalizing RP, is that it can quickly turn into a "cliquish" activity. When we start denying people membership or kicking them because they aren't as proficient at roleplaying as other members, we all suffer, because people start to doubt their position and "worth" in the eyes of the leadership. This is why I've always (4 years of guild officer-ship on Kettemoor) been cautious when dealing with it: people get hung up on adherence to Canon, or other things, and before you know it, people are complaining that they feel left out. The day RID excludes a member from being in the guild or, even just RP'ing with the guild, it's toast. Just like you wouldn't deny a level 15 noob the right to PvP against level 90 rebels with the group, its not right to exclude someone from RP because they're aren't any good, or break/bend the rules (Ex: Not wearing an st belt, using a heavy weapon..etc. Really? C'mon!).

-Ramd

[Arev]

I'd strongly recommend against allowing the guild to slip into being a full time RP PA.

When was this said?