Purpose for all Divisions?: Intel Team especially

Post by **Lexx Yovel** » Thu Apr 10, 2008 6:50 pm

Part of the problem with our divisions is they lack a clear purpose or goal. Yes, we give vague generalities, like the Commercial Company is supposed to craft, the Navy flies, the Army fights, and the Intel... intels.

What I plan to do over this weekend is sticky a thread with directives to all Commanders/Captains for what I want them and their division to accomplish.

I think we can all agree that purposes can be issued for all divisions, except perhaps the Intel team. For example, we can issue the Commercial Company to craft a certain set of supplies for RID, have the Navy prepare for the Saturday PvP events or space quest, and have our Army slaughter Rebbies in Restuss regularly.

I've been reading up on Barney's idea for a human relations group. Instead of creating an unofficial group of people, or creating an entirely new division altogether, I've been thinking it might be a good idea to have our Intel Team's Secret Police responsible for human relations. They can educate RID's on information, keep me updated on news concerning internal/external affairs, or information regarding any Rebel guild we choose to attack (if we decide to wage war in the future). They can also work on forming events to raise morale in general, like a celebration in one of our cities or a meet-up event in general.

What is everyone elses input on this matter?

Apium · Post by **Apium** » Thu Apr 10, 2008 8:43 pm

I agree the divisions need a distinct purpose, and it is fairly easy to give three of the divisions purposes. The intel division is another story though. When I took command during my last SWG session, I gave it a distinct goal: to monitor threats both inside and outside of the guild and to collect the information necessary for successful diplomacy. As far as I can tell, that never happened after I left. Then again, if all had gone as planned, this is exactly what the intel division would appear to be doing, nothing. Anyways, chances are that is not happening and the intel division does not have a true purpose. In my opinion, unless someone finds another purpose for it, I think it should be removed.

I don't think it would be a good idea to delegate party planning to the intel division. The planning of the party should raise morale as much as the actual party, which is why the committee must be made up of non-officers and volunteers who want to take part in the command structure of RID. Obviously, if this duty went to the intel division, they wouldn't be volunteers and those who would want to plan an event would miss out.

My view probably seems a bit harsh, but when more than half of the members in RID are not part of a division, it calls for divisions with some amount of sustenance.

Xoseh · Post by **Xoseh** » Thu Apr 10, 2008 9:29 pm

Stop hating on my divison Apium lol..

As far as you all know, intel does nothing as of now. This is untrue. I have contacted Lexx about many things that would fall into my divisions catagory. Of course, thats all Intel Only stuff, only Lexx knows about what has gone on. :p

Aside from this, Intel is a bit lacking. In no way do I think it should be removed, because it can serve a valuable purpose. The thing is Apium, nothing really *big* and worth while has happened. Sure we've had some drama recently, but its all water under the bridge now. I mean, when you think about it, RID has no enemies. Sure some people out there must not like us, but whats the big deal. What can a guild of ten do against a guild like RID? Nothing.

I have indeed kept my eye on other guilds, Rebel and Imperial alike. Sure, I dont contact them often, but I have friends in almost every Imperial guild and some in Rebel guilds. Reason to me not contacting them is there is no actual reason to.

In my eyes, we as RID would want to remain neutral and have no allies. With Allies comes Enemies, we dont need enemies. If we Allied with SR, IMPHL would hate us. If we allied with IMPHL, SR would hate us. Yes, its good to have friends in other guilds so we can contact people if we need a couple people for an instance run, but otherwise we should have no true allies.

If something big does happen, and it involved RID, I for one am going to take massive charge into finding out what happened, what we did, what they did, and whatever else I think we need to know. After I find all this out, I would contact Lexx and we would work together and solve the problem.

Longest post I've ever made, this deserves to go into RID history lol.

Apium · Post by **Apium** » Thu Apr 10, 2008 9:47 pm

Xoseh wrote:Stop hating on my divison Apium lol..

As far as you all know, intel does nothing as of now. This is untrue. I have contacted Lexx about many things that would fall into my divisions catagory. Of course, thats all Intel Only stuff, only Lexx knows about what has gone on. :p

Aside from this, Intel is a bit lacking. In no way do I think it should be removed, because it can serve a valuable purpose. The thing is Apium, nothing really *big* and worth while has happened. Sure we've had some drama recently, but its all water under the bridge now. I mean, when you think about it, RID has no enemies. Sure some people out there must not like us, but whats the big deal. What can a guild of ten do against a guild like RID? Nothing.

I have indeed kept my eye on other guilds, Rebel and Imperial alike. Sure, I dont contact them often, but I have friends in almost every Imperial guild and some in Rebel guilds. Reason to me not contacting them is there is no actual reason to.

In my eyes, we as RID would want to remain neutral and have no allies. With Allies comes Enemies, we dont need enemies. If we Allied with SR, IMPHL would hate us. If we allied with IMPHL, SR would hate us. Yes, its good to have friends in other guilds so we can contact people if we need a couple people for an instance run, but otherwise we should have no true allies.

If something big does happen, and it involved RID, I for one am going to take massive charge into finding out what happened, what we did, what they did, and whatever else I think we need to know. After I find all this out, I would contact Lexx and we would work together and solve the problem.

Longest post I've ever made, this deserves to go into RID history lol.

I know you are defending your position as an officer and its great that you are doing those things, but that still doesn't mean the division is doing anything. In fact, its hardly a division. More than half the people in it are officers (there are 3 total, two of which are officers). I want you and Rett to stay officers, but in my opinion the intel division should have never been a division. If its to accomplish its purpose it can't go around parading its members and throwing parties. It needs to be made up of no more than 6 people, two that are known to the guild (the officers) and four spread throughout the recruits and the other divisions. Then, you are right, you wouldn't have to do anything. Those people sit and wait and hopefully any disaster can be cut short.

Post by **Lexx Yovel** » Thu Apr 10, 2008 9:59 pm

Okay, well to be honest, half of RID isn't in a division because I see no purpose to adding them to a division till we sort out what to do with the divisions. Intel Team could have 10 people, and it would by now if it weren't for the fact that we dont have clear and assigned purposes.

Xoseh actually took the words out of my mouth. We have things planned the for Intel Team, but like he said, we dont have any strong allies/enemies to learn about. If we were to go to war with someone, we'd get all the info we would on em. Sort of like how we had a RID go undercover during the -D S- charade when they were a threat to us and the like. We even had someone in their vent channel.

Maybe Intel Team shouldn't handel parties. Maybe I can just assign RID's who may not strongly fit into a combat category but nonetheless do their best to help RID. They can sign up on guild forums, read up em on em, and learn about other guilds. Still, they can inform RID about quests and all. Intel Team has a purpose, but I guess I should have said that they need a purpose for when there isn't a crisis going on either.

We do have a secret operation thing underway (so secret I cant tell you by the way

) but its sort of at a stand-still at the moment, at least until I start adding member to the divisions. I definitely dont think we should remove the division. We need to get members involved in the guild, if they dont fit the crafting, space or ground combat category. It has potential, as a perhaps small and close-knit division.

The first step will be just to meet up with Rett and Xoseh, like I may do with the other divisions, have em work together on deciding who's best for the division, and giving them roles. They can assign Bob a role to get info on FRDM... how many members they have, what their player hours are, while Richard is tasked with getting to know WAKE members and seeing how they perform. If clear and distinct jobs are given to individuals at a personal level, then the division would be more successful I think.

Apium · Post by **Apium** » Fri Apr 11, 2008 6:23 am

Some form of intelligence team should definitely exist, but it need not exist within the guidelines of the other three divisions. We can't post the members of the intelligence division for everyone in the guild to see. They need to be nameless. I don't really think they need a role during times of activity. They should always be trying to infiltrate other guilds and gathering information that is pertinent to the stability of RID. We were extremely lucky to get an infiltrator in during the knoxikov incident, but the intel division doesn't need to wait until the disaster is upon us to mobilize their members.

I think the intelligence division should be left as is with some changes. Leave Redaxxe, Rett, Xoseh, and one additional member on the roster and add 4-6 more people that would not be on the roster. And let no one in the intel division know more than 6 of the other members (thats 4 of the known and 2 "unknowns"). This would give us a strong intelligence division that is ready to act as soon as there is a crisis or might even be able to stop one.

Xoseh · Post by **Xoseh** » Fri Apr 11, 2008 9:07 am

I agree with you both. Intel does indeed more people. And even then they need to be unnamed people. I have a couple ideas to talk about with you, Lexx. I think you'll like them. And to be honost, I didnt even know Redaxxe was in the Secret Police, I need to know who's in my division so I can talk with them instead of just handle everything myself and then let Lexx know it all.

I never said I was for hosting parties, but I'm not against it either. Yes I agree hosting parties isnt really Intel deeds, but if someone in Intel wants to host a party, I say more power to them.

Now it wouldnt be a problem at all for me to get intel on other guilds, as usually I'm a friendly person (lol), so if I ask for a favor or two from some people in the bigger guilds, I see no reason why they cant answer simple questions. If anything, we always could just find their guild fourms. :twisted:

Let me know whenever your ready to meet up Lexx, it might have to be without Rett, and we could just keep him imformed via one of my new ideas.

Post by **Lexx Yovel** » Fri Apr 11, 2008 10:05 am

Definitely up for discussion

I'm thinking I could tag the members but wont list their names on our guild rosters or anything like that. Red is in the division but I'm debating whether or not I should just place him in the Army. Some work is needed there, but I'll definitely be leaving you, Rett and Apium in the division.

Xoseh · Post by **Xoseh** » Fri Apr 11, 2008 1:09 pm

Do you think you and I can meet up tonight Lexx?

Post by **Lexx Yovel** » Fri Apr 11, 2008 1:37 pm

Definitely. I probably wont be on past 8 or 8:30 tonight but I'll be online before then for a good amount of time.

Apium · Post by **Apium** » Fri Apr 11, 2008 2:37 pm

I'd actually rather be in the army, but I'm sending a PM to you(lexx) with the rest of this sentence.

Barney · Post by **Barney** » Sat Apr 12, 2008 7:00 am

My paranoia can well imagine the rest of that sentence lol.

Intel seems so much like an rp thing. Really, guild wars is pure PvP but the idea of "getting information" about a guild is really just so much playacting. Knowing where a guild's city is, where the residents mostly live, and if they have scheduled groups planned so we can gank em during a guild war is about the only real information we need about a guild we war with.

The whole need of secrecy in who the members are, and all that also seems more an rp thing.

Maintaining diplomatic relations with other guilds, either rebel or imperial seems a moot point beyond sharing information about base busts and specially planned events. All those specially planned events are always posted all over the SS forums and such anyway and are advertised as open to anyone who wants to come so there doesn't seem to be a big reason to spend lotsa time on "diplomatic relations" with our "allies" and in my opinion the only diplomatic relations outside a friendly guild war with no complicated silly rules and things which will just get broken by accident or purpose is best done with the rebel on the other end of my lightsaber.

I just have a really hard time understanding how Intel really helps the average low-on-the-totem-pole guild member or newbish player. I'm at a loss for too many ideas either, really. I like the division, I just wish they were more obviously active in DOING something concrete that we can see for the average player as any kind of benefit to them.

Ask a newish guild member what the commercial district did for them, and they will tell you oh this person taught me how to figure out resources, that person helped me level, another person made my hat for me.

Ask a newish guild member what the Navy does and you'll hear how they do space pvp events on saturday or helped them equip their ships or level up in space or just spent fun in deep space with.

Ask a newish guild member what the Army does for them and you hear oh they got me to level 90 this week, or they helped me get this quest done I've been trying to finish or they helped me practice my pvp in Restuss, or took me through Sher Kar for two weeks to get my xx weapon.

Ask a newish guild member what the Intel division does for them and most of them will ask me "what is that?"

Maybe Lexx, we could send out a guild wide mail asking our guild members what do they WANT from their Intel division?

In my mind, our Divisions are here to best serve the needs of our players. Maybe we should ask our players what they NEED from an Intel Division to help us define it better for them?

Apium · Post by **Apium** » Sat Apr 12, 2008 10:43 am

Which is why the intelligence division should have never been a division. It does serve its purpose though. RID has had rebellions and city takeovers that could have been prevented if the intelligence team had been in place at the time. My attempt to revive the Imperial Council, also would not have been a failure if I had had a team of operatives gathering the information I needed. There are so many uses of the intelligence team within the structure of RID. I wouldn't object to it being removed as a division, but I would never want the intelligence division to be destroyed completely.

Kurke Aumea · Post by **Kurke Aumea** » Sat Apr 12, 2008 6:49 pm

I agree with Apium's last sentance the most. There's not enough need for a whole division (especially one of a total of 5 people) just for intel. I think division status is a bit over-the-top. However, that doesn't mean we shouldn't have some people doing some sort of intel for the guild. In my eyes, we need a small handful of people who take care of guild intel on the side while serving as members in our other main divisions. Perhaps have two people to handle intel responsibilities, but they aren't necessarily officers. Kind of like how members of the President's cabinet have a lot of authority, but hold no real rank anywhere. Xoseh, for isntance, could be the Secretary of Intelligence and report to Lexx and the other officers (and still hold the same responsibilities as other officers), but would be a member of the army/naval/crafting divisions. There could be a small group of people who secretly serve Xoseh for intelligence purposes, but they are also members of our other divisions and function as normal. Does any of this make sense or am I coming across as gibberish? If so, I can explain it better.

As for a guild morale division/group, I don't think we need a division, but a group or even just a person would serve this idea well. I'm all about some sort of Morale Committee that can organize events for the guild, but do so voluntarily as a something on the side in respect to their divisional responsibilities.

Post by **Lexx Yovel** » Sat Apr 12, 2008 9:37 pm

I wouldnt exactly say Intel is only an RP thing. There have been times in the past, like mentioned, where they would handle issues. Granted though, that was when we had true enemies who clearly disliked RID. Even MEK did something along the lines of putting a member of theirs in RID to try and coerce us into a war with IMPHL. But even if it is just roleplay, no harm in that I suppose. If all else fails we can always make it a roleplay division lol.

Maybe Intel Team shouldn't have been made into a division in the first place, but now that it exists, I see no point in removing it completely. I never liked the idea of "side" groups which aren't really official.

It's just a lot more clear in my mind when we have 4 tagged groups who do 4 main things. I'll probably make a public post asking what members expect of Intel, but even if they do as little as get info on potential recruits (make sure they aren't the alts of any dramamakers) or regularly inform RID's on things like quest information and the like, then I dont see the problem.

It's not like they cant help the Army or Navy, in fact their alts can be put in seperate divisions. I dont see much of a problem with 3 obvious divisions and 1 obscure division, which while members may not know about them, they can do something. Besides, it's Intel, no one should know about em

Anyways though, its not just RP or useless info they're getting. I do have intentions for them in the future. As soon as Rett returns, I'll speaking to him and they'll be working on the handpicking of members for the division.

Besides, it's not just Intel which needs work, it's all the divisions. It's not enough to clump all our ground fighters, pilots and crafters in their own division and call it a division. No, all that it will be is a title given to people. There needs to be work done to all divisions, so it's not like Intel is the odd one out.