R.I.D. Ballot 1

[Lexx Yovel]

Haha, well it's true, we don't want people thinking *too* hard, but at the same time we don't want dummies either

It's possible you have an older recruitment mail in-game Osar. The one I've updated got rid of references to our old cities and old councilmen. However, I will still need to update it because it still does say that filling out an application is required. So after I do a few tweaks I'll post a draft of that here.

In the meantime, check out the "RID BASE" section and click the updated "How to join" post. That one has now been recently updated.

[Osar]

Ok, I will do that and yes the mail I have is old, it has the city Outpost Kappa (it lists both names for the same city, the one mentioned and Fort Nar Shadda as well) and one other city. I need an updated version of that mail when you can get one to me, please.

[Xoseh]

Come to think of it, going back to the 30 day trial period. Do all council members have the ability to remove members? Or just you, Lexx?

I think if we institute the 30 day trial period, it would be only right for atleast Osar to also have the ability to remove members, just incase you (Lexx) need to take a sudden leave of absense, unable to log in, etc. Never know who we're going to run into these days, ya know?

Although, if all council members have the right to remove members, disregard this post.

[Lexx Yovel]

Currently Osar has that right.

It's forseeable I could expand that privalige to the rest of the Council for the trial-period purposes.

[Osar]

It's forseeable I could expand that privalige to the rest of the Council for the trial-period purposes.

I would have to say it would be a wise idea, not only are there times you (Lexx) won't be online but me as well. Also if a council member has to boot, with the current council I am sure the decision would be a good one.

At the same time though I have done my best to not use that priviledge unless I have to do so. With that said, before any of us (council members, not Lexx) do decide to boot, we need to set up a guild line between all of us to determine how and when we do have to remove who ever from the guild.

Just so it's not said that we have abused our priviledge in an unfair manor. Other than that this is a good guild line and I believe all of us need to read the "How to join" thread to ensure we are doing just exactly what is says when we recruit. This way we can say any removal we have done is done fairly.

[Lexx Yovel]

Yeah we'll need some sort of rule-set to abide by.

Like a list of things that warrant immediate removal (deliberately offensive, racist comments, griefing, stealing, etc), and some other things that require some amount of deliberation.

[Mr.Avatar]

All good points.

[Osar]

Yeah, but the thing is we also need to account for what WE consider the definition of those things are. I don't mean like if some one came out right with calling some one the N word and not consider it racist, but what is the difference between asking for help and what is considered greifing? You know, those things that kinda make it the hard choice. I mean stealing is stealing, but what can we consider the differance of stealing from not returning a loan? Don't get me wrong, not returning a loan is stealing, but we need to set a guild line saying what is long enough to return a loan and when it turns to stealing.

Sorry don't meant to stir up a hornets nest, but just some thoughts I think is nessary to help us build a GREAT guild instead of a huge mediocre guild.

[Lexx Yovel]

Creative use of colors Osar, lol.

Yeah, I mean racist remarks are easier to spot than the other things. I mean there's been times in the past where a few members have said some pretty nasty racist remarks, not only in general, but directed towards members. Needless to say, these remarks happened when I was offline, and it took some time before I could get online to immediately remove them.

Your right though. Things like griefing and stealing are a bit more open to interpreation. I suppose when I was talking about stealing, I meant more blatant stealing; like looting someones home that they were given admin to, or scamming someone in a trade. Not so much returning loans or things like that. Those are things that can be talked over.

Of course, if someone did outright steal from someones home or scam a member, attempts should be made to persuade them to return anything before removing them from RID.

And asking for help certainly wouldn't be considered griefing. I suppose this one is harder to define though. There really isn't much a member can do to other members that'd be considered "griefing" per se, except maybe constant spamming in guild chat.

There was once this member called Vahdreas who would constantly pester members though, especially this one member. He'd constantly follow him around, asking him for things. It got to the point where it was outright annoying, especially for the member being continually followed.

Granted, stuff like this probably doesn't warrant immediate removal. I suppose at its core, immediate removal should be reserved for those who pose a serious risk to our guild's image, both inside and out -- by outright insulting people, and things like that.

But a more ridgid outline for removals will need to be devised I suppose.

[Mr.Avatar]

"Your right though. Things like griefing and stealing are a bit more open to interpreation. I suppose when I was talking about stealing, I meant more blatant stealing; like looting someones home that they were given admin to, or scamming someone in a trade. Not so much returning loans or things like that. Those are things that can be talked over"

And asking for help certainly wouldn't be considered griefing. I suppose this one is harder to define though. There really isn't much a member can do to other members that'd be considered "griefing" per se, except maybe constant spamming in guild chat.

These things as well as others, can be regulated by simply saying, hey don do that. this would fall under being unruly, and if you ask some one to do/not do a certain thing multiple times, there has to be a swift boot to follow up if they are refusing to accept any guidence on an issue.

If some one is repeatidly begging for help or gold after being told no, or bugging another member after being asked to stop, i would consider that griefing..

[Xoseh]

Ah, I remember Vahdreas, haha.

Anyway, I do agree. A lot of these new rules can be brought about to that specific council members descreition. However, things such as stealing(from houses or scamming), racisim, extreamly offensive comments, and etc. should be strict liability, and should allow for removal as soon as possible.

I personally feel as though political discussions should also be considered strict liability incidents. While not ALL political discussions are nasty and violent, I've seen (I'm sure we all have) plenty of discussions explode into terrible fights. While I try to keep political discussions (when I see them happening. I for one am not into politics at all) down to a minimum in guild chat, it does sometimes get to the point where people are literally starting to hate eachother, something should be done at that point. (If you disagree, please say so. I just don't want RID's guild chat to explode into violence over a real life political discussion.)

Aside from that, begging and greifing is open to council member discretion. Personally, when I encounter begging (like I did with Gatoce) I gave him a couple warnings about it. After a while, I reported it to Lexx, seeing as I was not on the council at that time.

I also agree that asking for help isn't considered greifing at all. I ask for help all the time! However, when no one is answering you, or everyone is unable to help you, it then becomes greifing if you spam in guild chat asking for help, or if you spam one or two individual people.

Did I miss anything?

[Lexx Yovel]

Yeah, I'm glad you brought up politics too.

Definitely real world politics shouldn't have a place in guild chat, even if any sort of debates seem civil. It just leaves too much room for animosity between members, and sometimes they start turning into bigger arguments.

[Xoseh]

Yeah, I'm glad you brought up politics too.

Definitely real world politics shouldn't have a place in guild chat, even if any sort of debates seem civil. It just leaves too much room for animosity between members, and sometimes they start turning into bigger arguments.

Alright, well I'll be sure to shut down any political discussions I encounter from now on.

I can see this turning into a great thing for RID. We just need to make sure it isn't abused. Given the current council, I highly doubt this will be used as a show of force.


-As a side note, check out the new post I made in 'RID Events' finally revealing my secret for Ace Pilots! Of course, I've chosen the time when the servers are completely down to reveal all my secrets. -

[Lexx Yovel]

Looks exciting, nicely done Cant wait till the servers are up lol

[Osar]

Well gl with it, I won't be an ace until about idk, 2020 or some where in there. Anyways, I just looking forward to get RID going once again and make it a strong guild.