Information on prospect: Mordious/Mordian

[Saurat Seerdon]

Mordious: CL20: Shipwright/DE
Mordian: CL40: Jedi/Pilot

This guy seemed very interested in joining RID, so much so that he left the rebel alliance and the guild, HERO. He said his reasoning for leaving HERO was that nobody wanted to help him with getting his starship running or somethin like that. I gave him a tour of Fort Oasis and Sarlaac City.

He wants to do something like a 'jedi strike force'. i dont know.

He wants the ETA-2 Interceptor. He made his alt a shipwright/de because nobody wanting to help him with his ship and figured he could try learning it himself.

he also likes to use voice chat.

His friend/roommate may also be interested in joining RID.

[Arev]

Shipwright/DE

Is he not sure what he wants his alt to be? Because Shipwright is a Structures Trader, DE is an Engineer Trader.

He wants to do something like a 'jedi strike force'. i dont know.

No. Not to be a bastard, but no, that leaves too many conflicts. If our organization, especially our Army division were larger, I'd say we can work something out. But, as it is, no. Not to mention some of the RPers in RID will have a hard time swallowing this.

I'm hesitant to support him for one simple reason: He's too inexperienced. This guy couldn't have been in-game for very long, if he already joined one PA and only managed to get one character up to 40, and a crafter up to 20. Let's just let him hang out with us for a few days and see what happens. He may only want help, but may also be looking for freebies.

[Lexx Yovel]

As much as I appreciate his enthusiasm, Arev is sadly right. Many jedi members have joined in the past attempting to form some "jedi team" but they never came to fruition. It usually just leads to dissapointment and confusion.

I think Mordious can be a valuable member and would be happy to recruit him, although the first step may be to level him up and then we can work on moving him into the Army or something.

[Mikal]

Even if he isn't recruited (I agree with lexx and arev), I'm still interested in meeting with the guy. The former leader of my former guild that I was in joined HERO after promising the entire guild that he would get everyone in. He then placed us all on his ignore list. I myself didn't want to join, but I was trying to look after a few kids that were in the guild with us (they were like, 11 and 13). I kinda sorta have a bone to pick with him and getting a little info on little Ferihi would be nice hehe.

[Apium]

I have two concerns with this guy. The first, and most serious, comes from the Europa crisis. Maybe its just a little leftover paranoia, but I don't trust anyone is willing to drop both their faction and their guild that quickly. I would not consider him a serious threat, but lower levels tend to engage in activities such as spying because they cannot take part in the upper level content.

Secondly, he sounds like one of those people who expects the guild to provide them with everything, including instant help the moment it is requested, day or night. Don't you think RID has had enough of this type of recruit? Look at all the complaints we had during the time Barney was in RID about people taking loot or asking traders to give them free equipment.

[Arev]

Taken from the RID BASE forum:

IT MUST BE NOTED THAT IF YOU ARE UNDER LEVEL 50 YOU WILL PROBABLY NOT BE ABLE TO JOIN RID, UNLESS YOU ARE AN ACE PILOT, AN ALTERNATE CHARACTER, OR A CLOSE FRIEND OR RELATIVE OF A CURRENT MEMBER.

[Apium]

Did we not amend that? I vaguely remember discussing that rule and deciding to change it.

[Lexx Yovel]

That is true. I'm hoping that by the time he sends out his application, posts his introductory post, and comes to the interview, he'll be at least CL 50 though.

I don't think he's entirely un-trustworthy.

Indeed it's weird to leave a Rebel guild to join an Imperial guild (as if he were spying), but I believe Kioet' talked him into becoming Imperial (don't quote me on this).

In the meantime I'll send out info and an application to him.

[Mikal]

My first guild was a Rebel guild, the one I left right before I came here was a mixed guild. I personally don't mind if someone was a rebel before, especially if they are a lower level. A CL90 char that has been a rebel for 5 years and has played all 5 years? He probably has a long laundry list of rebel contacts, so therefore I would worry a bit over his motives for joining. This guy hasn't been around long enough (by his levels) to worry much about...unless it is a second account. I say let's review his application, talk to the guy, let him group with us a bit, get to know him, then if he is deemed worthy, let him join. But I do personally feel that a char should be at least CL 50 to join (personally would like to see them be 90 if ENT or Trader), but that decision is above my paygrade.

[Redaxe]

I absolutely agree with everything that was discussed here, EXCEPT the lvl 50 requirement. Yes most people low levels, even without trying to are after freebies and help, but I dont want to turn into IMPHL or anything, and I do not like that rule. If you refuse to let someone join because they are below level 50, then it looks bad on us, yes we want experience players, but also I dont know about anyone else but I DO want some lower levels to, because at a low level they are easy to manipulate and will pretty much be any profession you need them to be, such as medic, and anything like that. And if they are a low level they will stick with us, instead of quitting the guild and running off, because we're the only people they know. I talked to Lexx about this one time before, if we get low levels we cna teach them about professions that we desperately need, and on top of it all I think its dumb. I would be pissed if I wanted to be in a guild but was denied because my level. I think that is a pathetic rule to have, and even worse to enforce it. I am not saying let him in, or defending him, but I just dont like this rule.

[Arev]

(1) And if they are a low level they will stick with us, instead of quitting the guild and running off ... (2) if we get low levels we cna teach them about professions that we desperately need, (3) and on top of it all I think its dumb.

(1) Not likely. We don't have the numbers right now to have dedicated "helpers". So, what happens then is people get frustrated because "RID doesn't help newbies." Remember Maris-Brood? Same situation. She became frustrated because too few players were on that were willing to help her. I know, I helping a returning Pre-CU vet last night. I told him what I could and then directed him to the forums.

(2) While you make a good argument, you're wrong in the end. SWG isn't getting that many new players. If we are, it's new players from other servers trying out Starsider or Station Access players looking to give SWG a go. We're seeing very few *true* new players. So, in the end, if they are experienced players they've already made up their minds on what profession they want.

(3) I'm sorry you feel that way. The minimum level requirement is in there to show whether or not the player is dedicated. It's not that hard to solo from 1-50. And like I said before, we aren't seeing an increase in new players, rather experienced MMORPG players, and those players can get from 1-50 without a problem; if anything, it's a fun challenge (especially considering it can all be done solo). And let's face it, if you want to be competitive in SWG (in either PvE or PvP), you need to have the right equipment. You need to work for it. That requires dedication. If a player can get to 50, they've shown basic dedication to sticking with SWG, and that we won't be approached by a level 10 asking to join, only to ask for handouts.

In summary, Red, you're wrong. The minimum level cap is there for a reason - it's intrinsically and extrinsically good for our PA. 1. We don't have the numbers to support dedicated newbie helpers. 2. New players really don't need help prior to 50 because these "new players" are either experienced SWG players from other servers or Station Access players, not true new players. 3. It's merely a simple test of dedication.

[Apium]

I've argued for the repeal of the level cap before and I'm pretty sure I was successful (the post on these forums just wasn't updated). I would definitely support a system where a sublevel 50 player was granted a probationary membership. Like Redaxe said, we don't want to be IMPHL. I've always thought RID should be the guild that is viewed as the "grandfather" of starsider; everyone respects us and we attempt to impart our wisdom/experience to the new players. Arev also makes a good point in that there are not that many new players coming to SWG; we would probably be wasting our time and resources if we put full effort into even a fraction of the sublevel 50 recruits.

In conclusion, RID can easily survive without amending the level 50 requirement, but it could also repeal the requiement and work towards a more nuturing society. Its a trade-off and someone must decide what we are willing to sacrifice.

[Lexx Yovel]

Yes, I want RID to be a helpful guild, but it's difficult to micro-manage every lowbie there is. It leads to frustration on both ends, and lack of progress for the guild as a whole. We have major events to handle, and guild wars in the future. Lowbies will want to be involved (when they cannot be), and higher-ups will be annoyed at us catering constantly to lowbies (when they feel we should be catering to higher-ups).

I mean, by this logic, we should permit the recruitment of Level 1's off the street of Mos Eisley, provided they are Imperial (which isn't too hard to achieve nowadays). I cannot even begin to list problems with that approach, but I can say that to other guilds, it would make us look desperate for other members and just want to boost our numbers.

The level isn't there to be mean or restricting. It's a pretty basic limitation, and I'm sure IMPHL isn't the only one with stringent recruitment policies. I know IMPHL requires you to talk to their leadership in ventrillo, but I'm also sure SHC and other guilds have set limitations/requirements.

Basically, the Level 50/Ace Pilot limitation is meant for one main purpose: To demonstrate that the player has basic in-game knowledge, and can work towards a goal.

Personality matters too, but a good personality is reqired of all members. If a person below CL 50 really wants to join RID, they can tag along with us and we'll help them along. CL 50 isn't too hard to achieve. Not only that, if they go to CL 50 just to join RID, that show's they're actually determined to join, and not just in for the benefits (which a lot of newer players will naturally desire).

[Redaxe]

Im not talking about helping and giving handouts to every level 10 who comes our way Arev, but because of their level being below level 50, it does not meen they are not dedicated, or going to to stop playing at the end of the month. Ive seen very many people around level 20-50 range who who have been playing for months, and they don't worry about their levels because they mainly RP, no we're not an RP-only guild, but there are people out there who have been around for awhile and show no signs of leaving the game anytime soon who are below level 50. Your not a noob for being below level 50; If your below level 50 it does not meen your done when the month is over; If your below level 50 it does not meen you are looking for help when you cry wolf, or any handouts. Say a person wants to join, they are mainly RP, or just on the game to be away from real life and work, or just hanging out with friends. They are below level 50, but been around for months, and now they've decided they would like to start working on their level. But we don't accept them because they are too noobie for us. What kind of example is that setting? In my opinion its a poor one, and if your looking for people who are all level 90 and active day to day, and whos been around for awhile, then you will find maybe 1 our of 15 people who are liek that and guildless, unless they are jerks or so, end of story. Say if me or you or Kioet' wanted to be in RID, but we were below level 50 at the time and not excepted. Thats three valuable members you just lost because your looking for active experienced only members, and the only way, in your point of view as your expressing, is by their level. You need to look at more then just their level before you assume everyone below level 50 is looking for free handouts, and help once they need it. I see the point you are making Arev, but before you tell them right off the bat "Go level up first noob," then your completely wrong, we need to consider everyone for membership, and find out about each recruit in a interview, or over tells before saying no, and then after that, we can accept or decline their application.

[Arev]

Red, you disregarded most of my argument and Lexx's. This has absolutely nothing to do with being an rude or inconsiderate to lowbies. First, if they are under-50 and not an Ace, then they probably are an alt, created on Starsider for the purpose of RPing, like you said. If that's the case, then they probably will stick with Starsider purely for the RP, and if they do, they'll join an RP PA, not RID. Second, you disregarded this argument entirely, is that RID doesn't have the manpower to help lowbies. The past few nights we've had less than a half dozen on. And dollars to doughnuts, those few people, probably aren't going to help one lowbie, when they can help two, three, or four, higher level players. Third, I'd like to acknowledge Lexx's comment, is that it hurts our PR to go looking for lowbies to recruit, it makes us appear "desperate" for membership.

It's funny, moments before Kio started this thread I was in the process of starting a new one based on Good to Great. In this book, author Jim Collins asserts in order for an organization to be effective the key is to get "the right people on the bus." Now, even though the book is geared towards Corporations, many organizations including local governments and various association make it a required read for its memberships. When Kio and I discussed this last night, we agreed that RID membership should not be based on quantity, but quality.