Bioware Developing KOTOR MMO

Kurke Aumea · Post by **Kurke Aumea** » Thu Jul 17, 2008 4:37 pm

Perhaps our prayers have been answered:

http://www.gamespot.com/news/6194664.ht ... ws;title;3

A now-confirmed Bioware KOTOR MMO for 2009. It might not be SWG2, but I think a KOTOR MMO is a step in the right direction. I only hope they take the fun, working parts of SWG and add them into this new game.

Waucod · Post by **Waucod** » Thu Jul 17, 2008 5:03 pm

I don't know about this one... if they're going to make it usable by consoles as well it may turn out to be a bust. But hey can't be worse than what I've heard of SWG

Kurke Aumea · Post by **Kurke Aumea** » Thu Jul 17, 2008 6:37 pm

Waucod wrote:I don't know about this one... if they're going to make it usable by consoles as well it may turn out to be a bust. But hey can't be worse than what I've heard of SWG

Why would it be a bust on consoles? Given the multiplayer capabilities of the 360 and PS3, I'm not sure how this would be much of an issue. We know Bioware can make damn good PC and console games, so from a design standpoint I think the end product would end up quite well. I think ths issue for consoles will be longetivity for the game itself. To me, it seems like when you buy a console game you play it, beat it, and then enver touch it again. Perhaps a good MMO for a console could change that though...

Of course, I do think that the PC will be the primary platform.

Apium · Post by **Apium** » Thu Jul 17, 2008 7:24 pm

In my opinion, Bioware is the best rpg developer in the industry (and you guys know how much I love Square-Enix). If they put the same amount of effort they put into Mass Effect into this new MMO, I see it being one of the greatest ever made. Has anyone ever heard of an MMO simply closing up shop? I don't see how SWG would be able to compete with this KOTOR MMO or why Lucasarts would want SWG running alongside the new MMO. Right now, SWG is still star wars, but if this new MMO brings a true star wars experience with Bioware quality, SWG is just going to look like a stain upon the Star Wars franchise. The other great thing one can say about Bioware is that they are wonderful at developing "highly anticipated games" without leaving the gamers disappointed. With the kind of anticipation this game is creating, Bioware better deliver.

Granted, this is just speculation made considering Bioware's past games. We don't yet have any details of the actual game.

By they way, does anyone remember Bioware denying that the new MMO was a KOTOR MMO? I thought they explicitly said it was not.

Kurke Aumea · Post by **Kurke Aumea** » Thu Jul 17, 2008 7:55 pm

Read the article. While they don't directly quote the guy saying it is a KOTOR game, they do list some stuff at the end of the article about the ship date (well... year... actually). Given that they guy confirmed they are doing a MMO with LucasArts practically confirms it is KOTOR. Bioware did the first KOTOR game and a MMO is a logical extension of the series. Given the era when the games take place, you can do a lot of Star Wars stuff and still not be tied to canon like SWG was/should be.

My biggest fear is that this will be the anti-SWG game. Not that SWG is perfect, but there are parts of it that are amazingly fun. For instance, no other game has player cities and to lose something like that would be a kick in the guts to quite a few folks. The crafting system in SWG is one of the most complex and robust systems that when used in combination with a functioning player economy (hey, the conomy worked properly at one point but was screwed up by the devs themselves) provided an amazing aspect to the game. I'd be highly disappointed if a KOTOR based MMO didn't have these things. Bitch all you want about SWG, but there are some things that it does and it does them well.

The original vision for SWG was on the money. There is more to a unique world than just combat (guns, lightsabers, melee, ranged, magic, button-mashing, etc.). While the end result of SWG has been less than ideal, the concept was perfect for a true MMORPG.

With all that being said, I'm not sure what would happen to SWG. I mean, several other campanies have pulled the plug on some older MMOs before. But given the current state of things, it's hard to say. I mean, despite some population loss, there are still many serves with a kickin' population (Starsider being one of the more popular servers). The devs are bringing new content like enver before seen and they've eradicated bugs that have been around for years. The current state if the game is constantly improving and new content is being added at a pace that I can only term as highly satisfying. Is it all perfect? No, but these devs seem to have the right ideas and methods. On top of all that, the subscription fee is basically the same and I tend to see a lot of vets come back and stay, so who knows what could happen in the future...

Hell, for the past three years I swore off SWG and promising to never go back. I gave it a chance and I'm hooked on it like a fat kid on a Krispy Kreme.

Saurat Seerdon · Post by **Saurat Seerdon** » Thu Jul 17, 2008 8:53 pm

i dunno...i really like SWG due to the fact i like the timeline more, as well as my character. If i can't choose trandoshan in KotOR online, that will be pretty disappointing for me. also will there be character customization as deep as swg? will i be forced to play as jedi? i'm very skeptical about it.

Kurke Aumea · Post by **Kurke Aumea** » Thu Jul 17, 2008 9:17 pm

Kioet wrote:i dunno...i really like SWG due to the fact i like the timeline more, as well as my character. If i can't choose trandoshan in KotOR online, that will be pretty disappointing for me. also will there be character customization as deep as swg? will i be forced to play as jedi? i'm very skeptical about it.

Why force you to play a jedi? That would be like forcing everyone to be a Commando or something in SWG and bascially everyone would be a clone. I'm sure everyone would be able to be a different profession or class. I also like the SWG timeline more. It's classic Star Wars, so what's not to love about it? The problem with the current timeline is that if you stick to canon, there really aren't any jedi around. I mean, they broke canon a long time ago, but it would be nice to see the new game stick to it. But if they did, the current timeline would be out of the question because everybody wants to be a damn jedi...

I'd hope the customization is as deep as SWG. Its one of the things SWG does very well. No two characters are alike and it is wonderful. For all the toons that are human, none of them look alike. Even species like rodians or wookies all look different from one toon to the next with the clothing/armor system SWG has, its the most diverse game I've ever seen.

I think what everyone does like about SWG is the sandbox feel of it. You have like 10 different planets that are 16km X 16KM (15km X 15km playable) with NPC cities scattered across the map. Toss in land that you can build on just about anywhere with houses, harvestors, and player cities and you have a very unique sandbox experience.

Mikal · Post by **Mikal** » Thu Jul 17, 2008 10:45 pm

I also hope that character customization is at least similar to SWG. I left SWG for a while and played WoW. Everyone looks the same. There is no customization really. A dwarf warrior looks the same as every other dwarf warrior out there. There just isn't anything to set them apart. Now, I remember way back in the day when AH was a cool place to hang out (and there were 5-10 ents there at a time), a couple guys got an image designer (Kwee did it for them I believe...if you don't know that name, wow...where were you back then? lol) to make them fat and they ran around in hotpants (the start of the craze) as TK/Docs and hassled the hell outta the Rebels there. EVERYONE knew them when they saw them, there was no mistaking those two, who's names fail me now...it was 4 years ago or so.

To make a long story short, the massive customization abilities (especially with proffessions back in the day) and the great crafting system (before decay), and player cities (before ghost towns appeared everwhere so now Nar Shadda can't level up) really made this a fun game to play. Now just to fix the things in parenthesis and I'll be happy again lol.

Apium · Post by **Apium** » Fri Jul 18, 2008 12:11 am

Bioware = customization. I'm mainly talking about Mass Effect (as I can remember very little about the original KOTOR), but I have never seen an rpg that allowed that level of customization and not just in appearance.

It probably won't be a KOTOR MMO. I would, however, like the MMO to carry some of the same traits as KOTOR. Forget rebel and imperial, how about a system where our characters start out neutral and change based on our decisions? Who says that should be reserved for singleplayer rpgs? In rpgs like final fantasy and mass effect, I explored every corner of the world to find every bit of story. I've never read a quest description in swg and if star wars wasn't in the title I could probably forget I was playing a star wars game entirely. How about a story driven RPG for once? At least make me care enough to listen to my motive for slaying 15 womp rats.

In many ways, I prefer structured games like EQ2 more than SWG. I think SWG would have been fine if it had never added levels. Levels are for games that can be tiered like EQ2 and WoW. SWG was unique in that there was no single endpoint. Everyone had a different goal that defined their "endpoint." In EQ2, when I hit level 30, I know exactly where to go to find level appropriate quests. I know what resources to harvest to craft within my level. Instead of working for level 80, I'm working for an end goal within that tier. In March and April, I leveled a new character from 1-90 in SWG. I tried to take my time and enjoy some of the new midlevel content and just experience the world. I could not find a single redeeming quality in the levels 1-89. I know that is a little harsh, but others have had similar experiences. My goal in saying this is not to bash SWG, I believe SWG has many of noteworthy qualities, but it also has many horrible, horrible mechanics.

I just hope there is a mixture of the game types. I'd like to see a sandbox style game that does not sacrifice story or midlevel content. An RPG should be a journey, not a grind.

PS If you have not played Mass Effect (or KOTOR or Jade Empire), try it out. The experience will give you much hope in this new MMO.

RettVescan · Post by **RettVescan** » Fri Jul 18, 2008 6:59 am

I don't see anywhere in that article/quote where it says that its anything about Star Wars. Sure its Lucasarts, but Lucasarts has put out other games that aren't SW. Anyway, I could've sworn I read in some article on gamespot or ign that they while they didn't say it was not a star wars game, they did say it was a completely original concept which leads me to believe its not a SW game. I dunno though. I just don't want SWG to end.

Kurke Aumea · Post by **Kurke Aumea** » Fri Jul 18, 2008 8:11 am

RettVescan wrote:I don't see anywhere in that article/quote where it says that its anything about Star Wars. Sure its Lucasarts, but Lucasarts has put out other games that aren't SW. Anyway, I could've sworn I read in some article on gamespot or ign that they while they didn't say it was not a star wars game, they did say it was a completely original concept which leads me to believe its not a SW game. I dunno though. I just don't want SWG to end.

I guess my argument would be what else could it be? You don't partner with LucasArts to do a Lego Indiana Jones MMO... Whether or not it is a KOTOR MMO is up for debate, but I think it will be a Star Wars MMO of some sorts that will be set within the timeframe of the KOTOR games (definitely something pre-Yavin). I think you can have an original concept while using something like Star Wars as your foundation. Maybe what they're planning is something with a new way to advance your character or something, so you can still use Star Wars as a basis for the rest of the game.

The estimated release for this mystery game is sometime in 2009. I'd put more money on 2010 personally, but that's just me. Given that knowledge, SWG will be pushing 6 or 7 years old by then. I just wonder how long SOE will keep throwing developer dollars at SWG before they decide they're not making enough money to sustain any further development. I love SWG, but it does have a shelf life. That life truly depends on us as gamers. I think what keeps everyone playing SWG is not only what's in its name (Star Wars), but that there are some unique items in it that haven't been seen in other games. Eventually, games will come to market that will hit on both of those points and I think that's when SWG will have run its course.

Apium · Post by **Apium** » Fri Jul 18, 2008 11:46 am

Actually I think Rett may be right. On their website they have four games listed as "in development." One is simply called "Massive Online Roleplaying" and there is another game titled "Bioware/Lucasarts collaboration." That article really sounds like a rumor and perhaps they mixed up the two games? When IGN contacted Bioware, Bioware deferred them to Lucasarts who simply said "we have nothing to announce." Well there is still time for an annoucement. TGS is coming up and then there is the Game Developer's Conference in early 2009.

Kurke Aumea · Post by **Kurke Aumea** » Fri Jul 18, 2008 1:10 pm

Yeah, there's the problem with the current E3 is that nobody really cares. It may be a great thing for developers, but no news comes out of the event anymore and that sucks.

Apium, was Warhammer listed as the MMO in development? Or was it and the MMO listed seperately?

Kurke Aumea · Post by **Kurke Aumea** » Fri Jul 18, 2008 1:33 pm

OK, here's proof for all the skeptics...

http://www.massively.com/2008/07/17/kot ... onic-arts/

Apium · Post by **Apium** » Fri Jul 18, 2008 4:03 pm

Kurke Aumea wrote:Yeah, there's the problem with the current E3 is that nobody really cares. It may be a great thing for developers, but no news comes out of the event anymore and that sucks.

Apium, was Warhammer listed as the MMO in development? Or was it and the MMO listed seperately?

I had forgotten about Warhammer. Perhaps they simply had not updated their site yet. Warhammer was probably the MMO and then the new thing was the Bioware/Lucasart collaboration.

I still wonder if this was a slip or maybe it was a strategic move to build up hype. Some developers like to throw everything upon us at once, but perhaps EA is going to release very small pieces of information as we get closer to release.