Monthly Update - April
Posted: Thu Apr 13, 2006 4:27 pm
This was posted by StarNick, Galactic Senator and thought it informative. The Senators work hand and hand IG with DEV team testing new concepts:
Hey Folks, just wanted to get back to you all (as Im posting the discussion feedback in the senate boards as well) with the first two focus discussion threads I hosted. The major ideas/sentiment has been gathered and abbreviated in the following.
The economic discussion kinda got sloppy, and for future discussions I hope to do "overview milestones" where at certain intervals Ill collect feedback in one overview up to that point w/ detail. So in the end I just have to copy and paste together all the overviews.
Anyways, in the last month I've been more involved with these threads, as well as the Dev-Player dictionary. Also, dealing with the commando issues from Publish 28.
If anyone has any feedback to give on the Heavy Weapon changes, I collected feedback at this thread, and posted all the commentary in the senate forum.
Other than the threads started today, I took some preliminary results from the latest HW changes on TC when Publish 28 first hit, which can be viewed here: Prelim Results from TC.
So in the last few weeks its been primarily here and the commando forums, and a lot of post-by-post activity. So that's more or less a bit of a view into some of the things I've been doing...and without much hesitation, here is the "Gameplay Discussion Report":
Focus Discussion I: Plans & Intentions of a Senator
Essentially an outlining of what I want to do with the gameplay community. Where I make use of discussions and give reports back to the players + devs.
Since then as well as since when I brought up the senator introductions again and made a bit of an urging to be more visible on this forum, that has changed a bit now. I’m not the only one hosting discussions, so expect my own to be a bit more spaced out (not weekly, but bi-monthly). But that’s only for focus discussions.
Also, since Badger started up a weekly senator update for everyone where we can post introductions for or what we’ve been up to or looking at currently, a lot of what I wanted to do..the burden has been taken off my shoulders before they were even mounted on. But I do want to give a monthly update regarding -our- discussions, which I hope will be more than just immediate issues but the bigger and more broader ones.
As for topics, here is a list I generated from the first discussion, a list that folks are interested in discussing:
The Economy
-Crafters
-Trade
-Decay
The GCW
-Battlefields + Battle “games” (ie CTF or Capture the Commander)
-Rewards
-Quests
-PvP Ranking system/Perks for higher ranks
-PvP in general
The Combat System
Content
-Repeatable
-Group
-Expansions
-End game
-Dungeons (Never before seen content, no re-hash)
Character & Weapon Diversification
-Mods (SEAs)
-Looted mod clothing & Reverse engineering
Game Difficulty
The User Interface (UI)
Social Game (Non-Combat aspect)
-Player cities
-Politicians, Entertainers, Crafters
-Player-to-player interactions (ie shifting politics, something like a sandbox where players impact NPCs around them socially)
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Focus Discussion II: The Economy
Officially the first independent focus discussion, and I think it got some ideas flowing and so on. This was a discussion primarily on ways to improve the economy and the pros/cons of the current/previous ecnomies. Here's a general overview of a lot of the ideas players would like to see, or ideas that could stir up more discussion (ie trading games/NPC aspects):
A Hybrid Economy
Loot-based economies are not as fun as simulated model economies. A hybrid might be struck, where loot is primarily for lower-end folks and crafted for higher-end folks. Also some sort of bridge between NPCs and crafters could help too.
-Since the NGE, the economy has swung 180 degrees and need to be balanced as crafters are little more than novelties right now.
-A balance between loot-crafted economies
-Give players more sense of “control” with the player economy
-Renewable income needs to be implemented (decay + coloring kits). That will help, but resources need to be raised and schematic resource requirements lowered or adjusted properly. Maybe even power-cells (ammo) for weapons?
-Let NPC traders sell loot enhancements to traders (not as good as dropped ones however)
-Expand the economy into space with trading space stations and convoys, and do the same with the ground. A trader can buy/sell goods and can hire NPCs or players to protect a convoy carrying it. Can be the beginnings of a trader game. In effect, traders will have a VITAL role in affecting planetary trade (their “PvP”)
-Have NPCs buy/sell loot + crafted items (an NPC economy) to help the lower end folks and maybe help with competition. This can also be a negative and kill crafters.
-Both “economies” would be interwoven where crafters can enhance and add to loot, and vice versa. Neither should detract, but build off one another.
Player Crafting
Return crafting to the levels of pre-CU or CU at least (meaning, more complex and deeper reaching), and increase the schematics crafters can craft.
Revamp of resource requirements, component requirements, and skills to use and the such
Revamp of factories and resource/organic harvesting
Decay of Goods with use (not time)
Renewable income with skill power-ups for weapons (much like the lootable buff items, but for your weapon)
Renewable income with colorization of armour, insignias, etc
Weapon modification - either in the pre or post crafting process. ((Most likely not doable as having a single skin for each weapon helps out))
Stat Modification - a return to a bit deeper crafting game; ie a more robust crafting system that has more variables to customize
The reverse engineering proposed, but with more: Allow sockets to be built into armour/items (a la KOTOR item modification) where a reverse engineered item could be remade by an engineer, and implemented into items -- also will help with the proposed item diversification later on
From Meatpuppet: “In one sentence or less, I'd say that crafters need to be re-intigrated and loot value lowered.”.
The Economy depends on where the devs want to take crafters, so its imperative that this is actively discussed with the community.
Having professions more dependent on crafters is needed; ie Jedi can support almost entirely independently on their own. This is a MMO, when zero player interaction is needed then there is no economy, and really no multiplayer in MMO. The same applies to entertainers, although they are not a part of this discussion.
Eliminate the armour suits that go for oodles of cash by eliminating a high demand and low supply of hides (more drops, less requirements). This means have resources easier to come by (reduces inflation folks are charging for hides) and as well make how resources are gathered more fun for crafters.
Loot
Have more schematics dropped, rather than pure loot
Have only boss mobs drop loot that can be better than craftable, and elites only comparable or slightly less better
A total loot-based economy hurts the social game, to quote:
“A loot based economy does nothing for social players, to a great extent. Many of them enjoyed the ability to individualize their weapons and looks, to build to their specifications and to try for the best. For those folks, success was measured by the completion of a task that could take weeks, months or a year or more to finish. For them, the lead time to the final success was every bit as sweet as the small scale everyday successes. For some of these, the elimination of the ‘challenge’ eliminated a measure of the fun.”
In essence the pre-NGE economy was fun, all the interactions were fun not kill an NPC and get treasure, but talking and trading with real folks. This is a MAJOR argument against total-loot based economy.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Also some general ideas for a trading game/NPC aspect of the economy that I posted to stir some thought. In the end however, not many are in favor of an economy that has aspects of NPC/Loot economics in it, as many feel that’ll kill crafters. Since the NGE, this has proven true. While not all are in favor, every possible avenue to support a more hybrid economy needs to be discussed between the devs-players, or to a lesser effect a lot of the ideas here should be heeded as a discussion has already taken place!
The Trading Game
Bazaar Revamp - make it more like a fluid stock market where, Crafters, Traders, and NPCs have an impact on one another based off of items listed. (More demand, more pricey, less demand, less pricey). Both for looted and crafted items. Most likely for high end goods.
Trader Guilds (NPC guilds) with quests similar to the bestine elections where players can produce an impact. Also places where Traders can broker deals that could manipulate the economy
Formation of some kind of black market where players can buy highly illegal items and smugglers must deliver/be involved somehow
From Poldano: “I would like to see a more extensive political game as an aspect of the GCW and as a more interesting money sink than "inflated" loot. I would like to see more crafter engagement in the GCW and local-government offshoots of it, for example in the form of crafting missions or quests to produce items in return for partisan points instead of money.”
The NPC Element
Somewhat of an artificial price check, but players impact it. Depending on player actions on a global scale prices can shift. If a crafter has a monopoly on certain goods, other crafters could potentially even the playing field by bringing down prices galaxy-wide to compete, as NPCS would also do the same --> Forced competition
Trading Outposts where players can set up "trade routes" and buy/sell goods to NPCs in both space and ground. These goods most likely would be rare and extremely valuable items. Soon after the trade is complete, these same goods are transported on caravans or convoys which can be attacked by other players (raiders) and steal a certain percentage of the goods. These convoys follow established trade routes by players.
Just some ideas, after thinking about the NPC element for a while...it seems if the economy will survive, there has to be a bit more increased NPC activity in it. But that doesnt mean the crafting game has to die.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
The Verdict, Pros and Cons:
Most folks would enjoy a return to a more crafted dominant economy as it was fun. However, there were flaws with the crafted-dependent economy (inflation, price gouging, lack of certain items) but that can be easily balanced. A loot-crafted economy can be balanced and become a hybrid, preserving player interactions and thus preserving a sense of fun not only for those who trade, but to also those who craft.
Also the economy is in part a measure of the health of crafter’s, if its suffering, they’re suffering. Fundamentally to improve the economy, the crafters need significant boosts as well. This does not mean that a few individuals should be able to control a galaxy’s economy...but folks want to have an impact and interact with one another. The economy was a very good way to do this, and the majority of folks would like a return to this.
But at the same time loot can help stifle greed and inflation, which was a negative aspect of the old economy (read: it was too simulated where folks sometimes couldn’t get what they needed easily). Hence, balanced.
http://forums.station.sony.com/swg/boar ... ing&page=1
Hey Folks, just wanted to get back to you all (as Im posting the discussion feedback in the senate boards as well) with the first two focus discussion threads I hosted. The major ideas/sentiment has been gathered and abbreviated in the following.
The economic discussion kinda got sloppy, and for future discussions I hope to do "overview milestones" where at certain intervals Ill collect feedback in one overview up to that point w/ detail. So in the end I just have to copy and paste together all the overviews.
Anyways, in the last month I've been more involved with these threads, as well as the Dev-Player dictionary. Also, dealing with the commando issues from Publish 28.
If anyone has any feedback to give on the Heavy Weapon changes, I collected feedback at this thread, and posted all the commentary in the senate forum.
Other than the threads started today, I took some preliminary results from the latest HW changes on TC when Publish 28 first hit, which can be viewed here: Prelim Results from TC.
So in the last few weeks its been primarily here and the commando forums, and a lot of post-by-post activity. So that's more or less a bit of a view into some of the things I've been doing...and without much hesitation, here is the "Gameplay Discussion Report":
Focus Discussion I: Plans & Intentions of a Senator
Essentially an outlining of what I want to do with the gameplay community. Where I make use of discussions and give reports back to the players + devs.
Since then as well as since when I brought up the senator introductions again and made a bit of an urging to be more visible on this forum, that has changed a bit now. I’m not the only one hosting discussions, so expect my own to be a bit more spaced out (not weekly, but bi-monthly). But that’s only for focus discussions.
Also, since Badger started up a weekly senator update for everyone where we can post introductions for or what we’ve been up to or looking at currently, a lot of what I wanted to do..the burden has been taken off my shoulders before they were even mounted on. But I do want to give a monthly update regarding -our- discussions, which I hope will be more than just immediate issues but the bigger and more broader ones.
As for topics, here is a list I generated from the first discussion, a list that folks are interested in discussing:
The Economy
-Crafters
-Trade
-Decay
The GCW
-Battlefields + Battle “games” (ie CTF or Capture the Commander)
-Rewards
-Quests
-PvP Ranking system/Perks for higher ranks
-PvP in general
The Combat System
Content
-Repeatable
-Group
-Expansions
-End game
-Dungeons (Never before seen content, no re-hash)
Character & Weapon Diversification
-Mods (SEAs)
-Looted mod clothing & Reverse engineering
Game Difficulty
The User Interface (UI)
Social Game (Non-Combat aspect)
-Player cities
-Politicians, Entertainers, Crafters
-Player-to-player interactions (ie shifting politics, something like a sandbox where players impact NPCs around them socially)
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Focus Discussion II: The Economy
Officially the first independent focus discussion, and I think it got some ideas flowing and so on. This was a discussion primarily on ways to improve the economy and the pros/cons of the current/previous ecnomies. Here's a general overview of a lot of the ideas players would like to see, or ideas that could stir up more discussion (ie trading games/NPC aspects):
A Hybrid Economy
Loot-based economies are not as fun as simulated model economies. A hybrid might be struck, where loot is primarily for lower-end folks and crafted for higher-end folks. Also some sort of bridge between NPCs and crafters could help too.
-Since the NGE, the economy has swung 180 degrees and need to be balanced as crafters are little more than novelties right now.
-A balance between loot-crafted economies
-Give players more sense of “control” with the player economy
-Renewable income needs to be implemented (decay + coloring kits). That will help, but resources need to be raised and schematic resource requirements lowered or adjusted properly. Maybe even power-cells (ammo) for weapons?
-Let NPC traders sell loot enhancements to traders (not as good as dropped ones however)
-Expand the economy into space with trading space stations and convoys, and do the same with the ground. A trader can buy/sell goods and can hire NPCs or players to protect a convoy carrying it. Can be the beginnings of a trader game. In effect, traders will have a VITAL role in affecting planetary trade (their “PvP”)
-Have NPCs buy/sell loot + crafted items (an NPC economy) to help the lower end folks and maybe help with competition. This can also be a negative and kill crafters.
-Both “economies” would be interwoven where crafters can enhance and add to loot, and vice versa. Neither should detract, but build off one another.
Player Crafting
Return crafting to the levels of pre-CU or CU at least (meaning, more complex and deeper reaching), and increase the schematics crafters can craft.
Revamp of resource requirements, component requirements, and skills to use and the such
Revamp of factories and resource/organic harvesting
Decay of Goods with use (not time)
Renewable income with skill power-ups for weapons (much like the lootable buff items, but for your weapon)
Renewable income with colorization of armour, insignias, etc
Weapon modification - either in the pre or post crafting process. ((Most likely not doable as having a single skin for each weapon helps out))
Stat Modification - a return to a bit deeper crafting game; ie a more robust crafting system that has more variables to customize
The reverse engineering proposed, but with more: Allow sockets to be built into armour/items (a la KOTOR item modification) where a reverse engineered item could be remade by an engineer, and implemented into items -- also will help with the proposed item diversification later on
From Meatpuppet: “In one sentence or less, I'd say that crafters need to be re-intigrated and loot value lowered.”.
The Economy depends on where the devs want to take crafters, so its imperative that this is actively discussed with the community.
Having professions more dependent on crafters is needed; ie Jedi can support almost entirely independently on their own. This is a MMO, when zero player interaction is needed then there is no economy, and really no multiplayer in MMO. The same applies to entertainers, although they are not a part of this discussion.
Eliminate the armour suits that go for oodles of cash by eliminating a high demand and low supply of hides (more drops, less requirements). This means have resources easier to come by (reduces inflation folks are charging for hides) and as well make how resources are gathered more fun for crafters.
Loot
Have more schematics dropped, rather than pure loot
Have only boss mobs drop loot that can be better than craftable, and elites only comparable or slightly less better
A total loot-based economy hurts the social game, to quote:
“A loot based economy does nothing for social players, to a great extent. Many of them enjoyed the ability to individualize their weapons and looks, to build to their specifications and to try for the best. For those folks, success was measured by the completion of a task that could take weeks, months or a year or more to finish. For them, the lead time to the final success was every bit as sweet as the small scale everyday successes. For some of these, the elimination of the ‘challenge’ eliminated a measure of the fun.”
In essence the pre-NGE economy was fun, all the interactions were fun not kill an NPC and get treasure, but talking and trading with real folks. This is a MAJOR argument against total-loot based economy.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Also some general ideas for a trading game/NPC aspect of the economy that I posted to stir some thought. In the end however, not many are in favor of an economy that has aspects of NPC/Loot economics in it, as many feel that’ll kill crafters. Since the NGE, this has proven true. While not all are in favor, every possible avenue to support a more hybrid economy needs to be discussed between the devs-players, or to a lesser effect a lot of the ideas here should be heeded as a discussion has already taken place!
The Trading Game
Bazaar Revamp - make it more like a fluid stock market where, Crafters, Traders, and NPCs have an impact on one another based off of items listed. (More demand, more pricey, less demand, less pricey). Both for looted and crafted items. Most likely for high end goods.
Trader Guilds (NPC guilds) with quests similar to the bestine elections where players can produce an impact. Also places where Traders can broker deals that could manipulate the economy
Formation of some kind of black market where players can buy highly illegal items and smugglers must deliver/be involved somehow
From Poldano: “I would like to see a more extensive political game as an aspect of the GCW and as a more interesting money sink than "inflated" loot. I would like to see more crafter engagement in the GCW and local-government offshoots of it, for example in the form of crafting missions or quests to produce items in return for partisan points instead of money.”
The NPC Element
Somewhat of an artificial price check, but players impact it. Depending on player actions on a global scale prices can shift. If a crafter has a monopoly on certain goods, other crafters could potentially even the playing field by bringing down prices galaxy-wide to compete, as NPCS would also do the same --> Forced competition
Trading Outposts where players can set up "trade routes" and buy/sell goods to NPCs in both space and ground. These goods most likely would be rare and extremely valuable items. Soon after the trade is complete, these same goods are transported on caravans or convoys which can be attacked by other players (raiders) and steal a certain percentage of the goods. These convoys follow established trade routes by players.
Just some ideas, after thinking about the NPC element for a while...it seems if the economy will survive, there has to be a bit more increased NPC activity in it. But that doesnt mean the crafting game has to die.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
The Verdict, Pros and Cons:
Most folks would enjoy a return to a more crafted dominant economy as it was fun. However, there were flaws with the crafted-dependent economy (inflation, price gouging, lack of certain items) but that can be easily balanced. A loot-crafted economy can be balanced and become a hybrid, preserving player interactions and thus preserving a sense of fun not only for those who trade, but to also those who craft.
Also the economy is in part a measure of the health of crafter’s, if its suffering, they’re suffering. Fundamentally to improve the economy, the crafters need significant boosts as well. This does not mean that a few individuals should be able to control a galaxy’s economy...but folks want to have an impact and interact with one another. The economy was a very good way to do this, and the majority of folks would like a return to this.
But at the same time loot can help stifle greed and inflation, which was a negative aspect of the old economy (read: it was too simulated where folks sometimes couldn’t get what they needed easily). Hence, balanced.
http://forums.station.sony.com/swg/boar ... ing&page=1
I can't wait to see all these changes