What else do we do for Fort Oasis?

[Lexx Yovel]

What else should we do for Fort Oasis? I think one thing we should plan to do is obtain a Detachment HQ. Sienna' gave me 1 million credits, and I would like to use that to save up 4-6 million to buy a Detachment HQ from a smuggler.

BTW, I posted some new city ideas on the SWG Forums here: http://forums.station.sony.com/swg/boar ... ge.id=1428

[Guest]

I posted some comments for you in your thread. I enjoyed reading about your ideas

[Lexx Yovel]

Hehe, thanks. My ideas are the best!

[Guest]

PA: Regal Imperial Defenders forums: www.abstraction.com/ridboard
Server: Starsider

Lexx on the swg forums just put Regal Imperial Defenders as your guildname and put www.abstraction.com/ridboard in the website bar to create a clicky.

[Kurke_Aumea]

lol yeah Lexx, you look like a n00b!!!!

[Guest]

Isn't the priority city credits at the moment?

Should you not put those credits in the bank so as to ensure the status of the city for the near future?

I love the detachment HQ's , they are cool for having meetings, but arn't they an extravigance we can't afford at the moment?, especially with the danger of it being destroyed by rebels?

[Kurke_Aumea]

I've never been able to teach Lexx proper budget management. I've tried, but he still can't get it. lol

[Lexx Yovel]

Okay, thanks for the tip Fing

And BAH. I understand money management quite fine. Our city has lasted quite long considering those other cities that can't last a month

I would hate to put Sienna's 1mil to waste, so I wont spend it right away. Yeah, the city does need credits, but it's going to last quite a while with 1mil credits currenlty in it's maintenance pool. If bad goes to worse, I am definitely dropping 1mil in it, but I plan to hang on to the credits and refrain from spending it in big chunks. First I plan to auction off some items I have on the Starsider trade forums. This should supply me with more credits. It will be quite a while before we get a Detachment HQ or anything bigger than a Forward Outpost nonetheless. Such an act will need to be done as a group, but we will definitely worry about the base and city we have right now.

Once I work on getting the cantina, theater, and more cities in town; I can begin to concentrate on those kind of ordeals

[Kurke_Aumea]

And BAH. I understand money management quite fine. Our city has lasted quite long considering those other cities that can't last a month

Lol, you still don't know what a budget is and how to manage one. Personally, I like to run a city without having to rely on donations, it keeps one from being poor. I'd hate to see what happen if they took out the option to donate money to city treasuries.

[Lexx Yovel]

Heh, if they took out donations, then forgot about anybody having cities altogether. Taxes, even the un-bugged ones, hardly supply the money needed to run a city. You'll always be in defecit without giving up some pocket money

Even if you could rely on taxes, there'd simply be no way to sustain the simple things like gardens and lamps to the more complex things like city specializations.

[Kurke_Aumea]

Uhh, Nar Shadda runs entirely on taxes. Mind you, with the property taxe bugged, this is impossible. But, with the property tax working, Shadda runs entirely on taxes.

And don't tell me I won't be able to once we reach Rank 3, because I have already crunched the numbers and I know how we can do it.

[Lexx Yovel]

True, but despite the calculations, the projected tax income is always less than what you would expect. Right now a Rank 2 city is easily sustained with taxes, but rank 3 or higher, it just gets plain difficult.

When your rank 3, your city hall will cost 85k. Your bank costs a measly 1.5k, which turns out to 86.5k. Garages cost a rather expensive 20k. So far the city costs 106.5k. Getting a little more pricey now.

But hold on, hold on. Assuming that you'll register your city (additional 5k), and place a cloner (additional 20k), then your city will cost 131.5k.

Now here I am going to do some estimating. Let's say you'll place one of each mission terminal (excluding the Rebel one), and place... oh say, 5 trainers. That will be an additional 16.5k. City currently costs 148k.

Still, things like lamps, fountains, and statues cost 1.5k. Oh and gardens... *clenches teeth*, these are way too expensive in my opinion.

Small Gardens: 10k
Medium Gardens: 20k
Large Gardens: 30k

Assuming you'll place about one of each, that will make the city cost 208k. Also remember, city specializations range from 50k to 150k, but I wont factor those in. Also remember that the city hall increases in price with each rank increase.

Outpost - 35k
Village - 60k
Township - 85k
City - 110k
Metropolis - 135k

From what I calculated, (I may be bad at math, but I got a calculator) it would seem Nar Shadaa as a Rank 3 would cost approximately 200-220k most likely. So lets scroll down to taxes.

Income Tax: I'm pretty sure you have this set at 2k per week, so lets calculate. You need 35 citizens to become a Rank 3, and 55 to be a rank 4. With 35 citizens, you'd get a weekly income tax of 70k. Not bad, but still too short. Even with 54 citizens (Just shy of Rank 4), you'd still only recieve 108k from the weekly income tax.

As for property tax, (assuming it's not buggged) remember you should only get money from it if people deposite money into the terminal. Many people let the structure damage itself. The calculations for property tax fluctuate... so there's no real way to predict this.

Then there's garage fees... but then, unpredictable.

I'm not saying Nar Shadaa won't run, it's doing greater than I expected. It's just taxes fail to do their jobs properly

[Kurke_Aumea]

First off, save yourself the headache and go get one of the wonderful spreadsheets that are out there for calculating city budgets.

Second, you are under the assumption that as a Rank 3 city you have to have 6 trainers, 5 missions terminals, and that whole array of other things. But, despite all those costs, it is possible to run the city by using taxes alone. I have worked the numbers and it is possible. What you seem to be missing is how the property tax affects things. Yes, the income tax is a straight up tax, but it is the property tax that has the most influence.

Not sure if you know this, but different sized structures get taxed differently. Where a 10% tax on a small house is 437 credits, it is 739 on a medium, and 1,008 credits for a large. Last time I checked, Fort Oasis is loaded with oodles of smalls for being a Rank 4. That could be your biggest downfall in your budget. Keep in mind that I am not knocking you for this, but making a simple observation. And yes, I know you don't have much choice in the matter due to the terrain and city limits.

The one thing I kept trying to drill in your head but that you never understood, is the idea of living within your means. Nar Shadda is currently Rank 2 (1 short of Rank 3 though). We can place a bank, garage, trainers, terminals, gardens, a cantina, and maybe a few other things. Of all of those choices, we have the bank, garage, 6 trainers, 4 terminals, and a cantina. Guess what, the city treasury makes over 30k a week. This is all with a 2k income tax and a 25% property tax.

Now, I know once we hit Rank 3, that 30k surplus gets cut to 5k. But also keep in mind, that for ever citizen that is another 2k and there is an ever increasing desire for citizens to place medium housing. At 45 citizens, we are up to a 47k surplus each week (assuming that 11 small hosues are placed and nothing else).

Snag on the clone center that we will want to place at rank 3 and you knock the surplus to just above 26k. Of course, if we place a med center, we are up to 29k because of the property tax. That's almost 30k that I can spend on things to just spruce up the city. This is what I would use to place a variety of gardens. Even with registering the city costing 5k, I have plenty of change left over to place at least two gardens.

Bump citzenship up to 50 and I get an extra 13k to play with (also assuming that 5 small houses are placed). So far, I am still within my budget.

Now, guess what the total city maintenance is...... roughly 160k at Rank 3. Far under your estimations. Why??? Because I am only placing what Nar Shadda needs. Sure, gardens and trainers and terminals are nice, but if the city can't afford them, why place them??? I mean, how many trainers do you really need??? If you have a faction terminal, do you need a general mission terminal??? If you only have 10k to play with, why would you place a large garden???

Call me cheap, call money conscious, but I can still run a city within its budget without having to force people to give up money in donations. I mean, they are already footing the bill with taxes, why make them donate to the treasury when they are paying taxes. And don't say I should donate money to the treasury because I am the mayor. Since I don't craft and I just restarted my resource business, I don't have the income that you combat people do.

This post isn't meant to cut down anyone, but to just make a point that you can run a city within the city budget, despite what popular opinion indicates. If you really want hard numbers, I'll give you every stat out of my spreadsheet and show you that it can be done.

[Lexx Yovel]

Thats understandable... but there is only so much you can limity yourself to. The mission terminals are cheap, so it wont hurt to have one of each of those, nor trainers. But things like cloners are a neccesity, and they do weigh down maintenance.

I say we just wait and see. And I want one of those spreadsheets handy

[Kurke_Aumea]

I agree, you can only limit yourself so much. But, 1,500 credits is 1,500 credits. It all adds up in the end. Six trainers and 4 mission terminals adds up to 15k.

My whole point is, is that it can be done if you manage your resources right. As a mayor, I am not placing everything that I can yet. The city simply can't afford it. Yes, we are Rank 2 and we can place gardens, but we don't have any yet.

Remember, the biggest factor in all this is how the property tax affects structures. If your city is loaded down with small houses, you are going to have significantly less income. Currently, Nar Shadda has about a 9:3:1 ratio of small houses to medium houses to large houses. Basically, for every one large house, there are three mediums, and 9 smalls. Those mediums and larges are where the city picks up a lot of its extra cash.

Here's a link to a spreadsheet you can download for your city:
http://www.tirius.co.uk/html/treasurytool.html

It is very helpful and really puts things in perspective. Especially when you have bad math skills. *cough, cough* Lexx *cough, cough* lol